Replies

1. 
   bww_maryland | Jul 11, 2006 07:11am | #1

   my shop is the same size, unfinished poured concrete on all sides.  I ran the electrical myself, outlets in the uninsulated ceiling joists expect for my table saw which i ran down a 2x4 "tacked" to a wall.  I always have a ceiling outlet close by and if you have the layout you can be more strategic.  I run my lights off these outlets too.  I do plan to run a dedicated outlet for my DC which I haven't done yet.

   anybody else run ceiling outlets?

   not sure if this helps.

2. 
   BG | Jul 11, 2006 01:56pm | #2

   Chgorughyref,

   My shop is about the same size and I can assure you every bit of that space will be needed and used if you have light and power available. Personally, doing it again I'd focus on more outlets in the ceiling(need lots of light). In some of those high outlets I run a surge protector strip of outlets and tape the strip to a lolly column or 2x4. 

3. 
   Fred | Jul 11, 2006 03:09pm | #3

   Outlets at ceiling height, on the wall, everywhere. Many of them. You can't have too many (I thought I did, but time prooved me WAY wrong). Have a few different circuits.

   I'd run 240V circuits (probably 2 or 3) while I have the electrician at home.

   Lots of lights.

   If you have kids, or visitors (even if you don't), you can locate a swich on every line that shuts off the power to the intire line. I lined up my swiches (for 120V and 240V) near the entry door so I turn them on/off when I come in/go out of the shop. No tool will operate when I'm not there. I found it safer for myself too since I never unplugged my tools when changing blades or cutters. Now all I have to do is switch off the line. Never need to unplug anything. It is faster, so I don't tend to skip it.

   Hope this help. It would have helped me if I had done it all at the same time on day one!

   Fred

    

    

1. 
   chgorugbyref | Jul 11, 2006 05:35pm | #6

   Fred

   The switch idea is great.  I have young children and the door to the room will be locked, but I like the additional insurance.  Thanks!

1. 
   Fred | Jul 11, 2006 11:44pm | #8

   If I had to do it again, I'd put one light bulb on each circuit. I sometimes forget to turn off a switch. A light that is on at night would remind me.

   Be safe.

   Fred

    

1. 
   dwolsten | Jul 12, 2006 03:49am | #9

   I concur with the post about keeping lighting and machinery on separate circuits. Definitely a bad idea to keep them together since a tripped breaker would mean a very dark room to find your way out of, but also some 120V tools come pretty close to the maximum current capacity of a 15V breaker. Why push it with a lot of lights on the same circuit?Here's another idea: how about a small light outside the basement, at the entrance, that comes on when the switches in the room are turned on. Sort of like the "ON AIR" lights at radio studios, in order to tell the family that the shop is in use and you shouldn't be disturbed.

1. 
   bww_maryland | Jul 12, 2006 04:16am | #10

   agree with all that lights should be on their own circuits ... mine aren't right now and it scares the heck of me thinking lights go out for some reason (DC and lights one at same time) and TS on 220V still running ... sounds like a good project for me for the weekend.

   i think i stated in orig post, but i'd run a dedicated dc circuit.  Almost all equip (TS, jointer, planer, bandsaw, etc) are the only machines running, but DC needs its own.

   brad

2. 
   Fred | Jul 12, 2006 02:46pm | #11

   You are right. What I meant is to have a single bulb on each circuit. The main lighting must be on a different circuit.  This ''on air'' type seems interesting.

   Fred

    

2. 
   user-180958 | Jul 21, 2006 05:29am | #22

   I did mine too.  Check with your local Township to see if they want the job inspected.  If you don't get it inspected, then you may invalidate your home insurance if you have a fire.

   Our code required ground fault breakers or outlets and a maximum 10 outlets per line.  I made sure that I had separate circuits for the heavy use machines, and devoted circuits for my dust collection, and a seperate circuit for the compressor.  So these machines can all run independently without worry that a breaker will trip.  I used 20 amp outlets throughout and the appropriate gauge wire.

   I wired in two three way switches in different parts of the shop so I could conveniently turn on/off the dust collection.  For outlet boxes mounted to the concrete wall, I used conduit to shield the wire up to the ceiling.

   Good luck, let us know how it works out.

4. 
   dukeone | Jul 11, 2006 03:18pm | #4

   One thing I can say after thirty or so years as an electrician is look into high output flourescents with proper color bulbs. They will cost more but in the long run it will be worth it. Also have a panel put into the shop, it will make changes easier. Good luck, KDM

   Kenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member

1. 
   BruceS | Jul 11, 2006 04:03pm | #5

   Ceiling outlets are fine.  BUT!  One poster mentioned having machinery and lighting on the same circuit.  You sure don't want to trip a breaker and loose your lighting and still have a piece of machinery winding down.   If your going to have ceiling outlets use multipal circuits and colour code the circuit outlet covers.  White for lighting, Brown for machinery. Remember  Murphys Law.

   OOps, Sorry Ken, not meant for you.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   chgorugbyref | Jul 11, 2006 05:40pm | #7

   Dukeone

   There is actually a separate panel in the basement already with plenty of room for additional circuits.  Somebody must have known I was moving in...

3. 
   Ricks503 | Jul 18, 2006 10:00pm | #19

   I agree - very important for finishing - to get the right color rendition.  and as a bonus, they can be used as grow lights for plants during the winter.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   dukeone | Jul 19, 2006 04:53am | #20

   Rick: What you growing Dude? I haven't kept track of lighting since retiring from the electric world almost six years ago but I remember that a cheap way of getting good color was a mix of incandescent and regular cool white florescent. Now-a-days there are great tubes for good color but they are still expensive and if you don't need them on all the time you can set up for color sensitive work in a corner of the shop if you have the room. Keeping a couple of high CRI tubes on hand for when they are needed, using cool whites for general use will save a few bucks. DukeKenneth Duke Masters

   The Bill of Rights December 15 1791 NRA Endowment Member

   LEAA Life Member

   CRPA Member

5. 
   gmt | Jul 15, 2006 11:30pm | #12

   I am about 80% finished with my garage to shop conversion, doubt anyone ever hits 100%. Here are some thoughts or things I learned along the way. First you have done the most important step, have a layout, without a layout you run the risk of redoing the wiring as your shop changes. I elected to do the wiring in two stages, enough to get me in operation and make changes to layout and then finalize the wiring. I divided the lighting into two separate 15 amp circuits, one is a general lighting grid, twelve ceiling fixtures that light up the whole shop pretty well, the second circuit is for task lighting, lights are placed to support each tool and work area. The outlets are divided over two 20 amp circuits. My outlets are quads, a little more cost but so handy when you have more than two devices to plug in. There are 4 ceiling outlets in the shop, one with a cord on a reel, not my favorite thing, I don't use them as much as I thought I would. Next step is to put down a wood floor, concrete kills my knees and back, and run wires under the floor to each tool. Think of your workshop like a good kitchen; lots of lights, outlets and separate circuits to major appliances. good luck .... george

1. 
   chgorugbyref | Jul 16, 2006 05:35pm | #13

   Thanks.  Good thoughts. Especially the quads.

6. 
   splintergroupie | Jul 17, 2006 04:43am | #14

   Not sure what the rule if for a basement shop, but for my shop i had to have GFCI-controlled outlets. Check local code.

   I second the High-Output lights. I'm a bit sensitive to fluorescents, and find these much more pleasant to work under that the cheapo shop lights. I used to replace my 4' tubes every year due to loss of lumens, but i've had these 8' tubes in three years and they are still bright.

1. 
   BarryO | Jul 17, 2006 07:25am | #15

   The rules is 15A & 20A 120V receptacles in an unfinshed basement must be GFCI, unless they are dedicated to a certain piece of equipment, e.g., 'wouldn't want a receptacle dedicated to a refrigerator or sump pump to trip, and not know about it.

1. 
   splintergroupie | Jul 17, 2006 07:43am | #16

   Thanks for clarifying, Barry. I wasn't sure if the rules were more relaxed inside the inhabited envelope. I'm curious about the wording of your reply, though: would a finished basement (i'm assuming SR'd walls) not need GFCIs? It seems a good measure at any rate in an area prone to dampness.

1. 
   BarryO | Jul 17, 2006 09:53am | #17

   This is the wording in the code:

   (5) Unfinished basements. For purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like.

   Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.

   Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another, and that is cord- and plug-connected in accordance with Section 400-7(a)(6), (a)(7), or (a)(8).

   I think the idea being, if it is "finished" under this definition, typically with drywall, carpeting, and furniture, it'll be dry rather than damp or wet, and users typically won't have contact with concrete walls and floors.

   The real worry motivating the need for GCFI's is use in damp or wet locations, with dirt or concrete floors (very conductive), and use with portalbe equipment and/or worn extension cords, which often have significant leakage currents.

   Edited 7/17/2006 2:53 am by BarryO

1. 
   splintergroupie | Jul 17, 2006 12:15pm | #18

   Thanks again. It looks like things like dust collectors that stay in place wouldn't need GFCIs then.

7. 
   Oldtool | Jul 19, 2006 08:56pm | #21

   My shop in 12x20 and the best thing I did was install 4 sets of dual 96 inch florisant lights with 2 swiches dividing the lights. The lights are the refrierator type can handle the cold weather and kick on fast. I never have shadows or a need for more lights.

8. 
   sjn | Jul 24, 2006 04:25am | #23

   In my shop, each gang box has 4 outlets. 2 black outlets and 2 white. The white outlets are wired to a seperate breaker, as are the black. That way, you can keep track of loads and always have a way to finish that last little job without a trip to the breaker box. Lighting is wired to a third breaker so there is little danger in losing the lights. Keep outlets at a height slightly above and in close proximity to your work surfaces. I use twist receptacles and plugs for permanent power tools (table saw, jointer, planer, etc.) to prevent them from accidental unplugging. These are all 240 volt. Hope this helps.

1. 
   John_D | Jul 26, 2006 12:16am | #25

   Check with your inspector before putting two live circuits into a single box.  Some feel it's a violation or just a bad idea, as you can have one circuit dead and open the box, finding the other circuit live.  My inspector did not have this issue, so my boxes are exactly like yours -- though I do have a label on every jbox and outlet box stating there are TWO live circuits.

   In my jurisdiction you cannot have more than one 240v outlet per circuit.  Works fine in practice as many others have attested, but your city's codes and practices will determine whether you pass inspection... :)

   I've no issue with using twist/lock receptacles but I did want to say that non-locking 240v (I used NEMA 6-30's) don't just fall out on their own.  I bought a couple pieces of gear (heater, bandsaw) that came with 6-30's already installed, saving me a bit of trouble; of course I had to put the plugs on other gear (TS, jointer).  Another good thing about 6-30L's (the twist kind) is that they seem to be more easily available than 6-30's at home centers.  I had to get my 6-30's at an electrical supply, and they ain't cheap there since I'm not in the trade.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   sjn | Jul 26, 2006 05:51am | #26

   Hi John_D
   I liked your idea about labeling the boxes for 2 live circuit and will do this as soon as I can.
   thanks
   sjn

9. 
   squaredrive | Jul 24, 2006 05:10am | #24

   To wire your new shop correctly you should read the amp requirements on the name plates of all your tools. And if your tools can be switched over to 240 volts ac, you should have the electrician rewire them for 240 volts.  You will be delighted at the power of your joiner and tablesaw . Plus a sub-panel located in the shop area will save you time and money for future outlets and lighting.