Choice of wood for building an entry door frame (styles & rails). I have black walnut, sassafras, and oak. Is one of the woods better than the other for the elements and stability? There will be no protection from the elements.
Thanks
Edited 3/3/2007 10:02 am ET by gypsybone
Replies
gys[psybone.
Both white oak and black walnut are high in tannic acid, thus they need nonferrous metal (stainless steel or brass) or will rust and then the rust will cause decay. neither look good after a few years exposed to weather even if you carefully varnish them with great marine grade varnishes..
I make mine out of black walnut simply because all the wood on the exterior of my house is black walnut.
I have no experiance with sasafras
gypsybone
Your profile does not show what part of the world you live in, so the term outside elements leaves too much to the imagination. Look around where you live and see what others have used.
Red oak and teak are both used in shipbuilding, because of their ability to resist the elements. Mahogany is also used in trim carpentry, and more, on ships .
Cedar and redwood are also very resistant and are used in exterior applications, though white oak may have some resistance, based on the fact that red oak does. (I may be wrong here).
In Canada, where I am from, you will not find any of the woods you mention used in exterior applications.
Have you thought about asking a local home builder or architect? JL
Red oak rots quickly, White oak is the way to go for exterior or wet application.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Interesting Bruce S
Red oak was the wood of choice for many of the tall ships that sailed our oceans. It was generally used for the hull of the ship and the ribs. Teak often was the wood of choice for the decks, and mahogany the choice for cabinetry and trim work.
I will keep in mind your comment about white oak. JL
Just for fun do search and read post 32229.19Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
That was fun BruceS
Like I said, I will keep it in mind. JL
I think you need to double check your sources about the use of red oak for ship building. My sources indicate white oak was the wood of choice.
Already done Steve. Maybe that is why some of the tall ships sunk?
Another wood used for shipbuilding was white pine, the preferred wood for the masts.
My source is the Museum of Civilization in Quebec City...but I have no problem accepting the info I am receiving about white oak. I will go to sleep that much wiser tonight. JL
Jeanlou,
I'm sorry red oak was not used it was white oak.. White oak is decay resistant while red oak rots fairly easily. The masts were usually white pine because white pine grew the tallest of any trees accessable to the British (They didn't know about the redwoods of Calfornia yet)
Edited 3/4/2007 8:57 am ET by frenchy
Redwoods for masts ! Definately for
Tall shipsWork Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Frenchy
A redwood mast would sink a ship...and about 100 people have already told me about white oak/red oak. I guess they all want to make sure I never forget. :-) JL
The #1 choice for mast building was sitka spruce and still is if you can get it. White pine works as well as some other conifers, but I think redwood would be too brittle. The tall ships were built out of what people called English Oak that is probably where your confusion arose. English Oak is white oak.
Terry
Terry
When the British came to what is now Canada they helped themselves to our natural resources. White pine is the wood they cut to ship back to England for masts, because that is what we have (had) in Canada, and Northern Red oak is what they also cut to build ships. Read my post that falls just a couple after your original that I am responding to and you will see my position.
I agree that white oak is a great material for shipbuilding, if you have it.
I agree that redwood is not the right tree for masts, but if you read Frenchy's reference and my reply, you will see it was tongue in cheek, and not serious. Have a good day. JL
jeanlou,
Yeh! it might a typical ship but if you built a large enough one, ....... <G> 'least you wouldn't have to step the mast which is what's normally done..
God Bless America...I am the first to agree, but, ladies and gentlemen, your way is not the only way. Following is some information from articles on oak and there are many many others on the web. JL
We still recognize the magnificence of the oak in our lives. It is the quintessential wood for doors. “Duir,” the Celtic name for “oak,” means “door” in many languages, including Latin, Greek, German and Hebrew. From colonial times, American shipbuilders have used American white oak exclusively. The keels of our mine sweepers and patrol boats in World War II were of white oak, some taken from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s estate in the <!----><!----><!---->Hudson<!----> <!---->Valley<!----><!---->. Oak in <!----><!---->Maine<!----><!----> is made into many products. Northern red oak is used in shipbuilding as well as for furniture, interior trim and lobster traps. Scarlet oak, coarser grained than either white or red, to a limited extent serves these same uses. The bark of black oak is used in tanning leather and its wood is used in the same ways as scarlet oak.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Nancy Coverstone ([email protected]), <!----><!---->University<!----> of <!---->Maine <!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!----><!----> <!----><!---->red oak<!----><!----> n : any of numerous American oaks having 4 stamens in each<!----><!----> floret, acorns requiring two years to mature and leaf<!----><!----> veins usually extending beyond the leaf margin to form<!----><!----> points or bristles Encyclopaedia Britannicared oak any member of a group or subgenus (Erythrobalanus) of North American ornamental ... It is used for shipbuilding, furniture, and other manufactures. ...<!----><!---->
Wow gypsybone,
No protection from the elements. That is an almost impossible pair of shoes to fill. My suggestion would be to get a fiberglass door for this application. Of the three woods you have on hand none stand out as being that much better than the other. So, if you do choose to make it out of wood , be prepared for maintenance on a yearly basis. Even then it's pretty iffy. If I could choose, Teak would be my choice of material. ( I know......... fiberglass, it makes the skin crawl ) One finial note. Use stave construction with veneer overlay for your best chances of keeping things flat.
Good luck, Paul
Paul
I would be careful about using veneers in exterior applications. There is much opportunity for failure. JL
Hi JL,
Your right. No easy solution for this application using real wood. Maybe quartersawn material . The door will have to be well sealed and constantly monitored for moisture invasion also.
Paul
Paul
Even though I risk irritating some people, red oak was also used for many exterior doors in the churches in our province. They did not rot but some do suffer from black stain caused by humidity. These are doors from the 1700s and 1800s. Others were done in pine.
You are right about sealing the door very well, all faces and edges and cutouts, whatever wood you use. If you are comfortable with the info received on the forum, then it seems like white oak is the product to use. JL
All of the three you mention are reasonably rot resistent, but black walnut is probably the most rot resistant as well as most stable. (Heart wood only--for any of these species.)
I would coat the end in contact with the floor with epoxy for additional sealing of that cut edge. As far as keeping a clear finish looking good there isn't really any way without expecting to do annual maintenance. By the way, the element that causes the deterioration of finishes and appearance is sun--moisture, as long as there are periodic chances to dry out, is way down on the list.
The most durable finish is paint--which will out last any clear finish by a substantial multiple of years. If you must have a clear finish you should first coat the frame on all sides with a low viscosity epoxy. (There is a FWW article on this that was published in the last several years.) I have used the product by Smith and Co. Jamestown Distributors is one source. This must be overcoated with a good marine spar varnish. (UV damages epoxy rapidly) None of the big box stores sell any marine spar varnish, regardless of the name. The list of marine spar varnish has three names--Epifanes Gloss, Interlux Schooner, and Pettitt Captain's. The manufacturers directions call for about 6 coats of full strength brushed on varnish, scuff sanded between coats. Every year if the door gets lots of sun, it would need to be lightly sanded and an additional coat of varnish applied. (Twice a year if you are significantly south of the Mason Dixon line.) Dings need to be touched up quickly. If there is quite a bit of shade, then you may not need to add a coat except every other year. Rush to sand and recoat if you see the finish start to dull. If you see yellow patches it is time to strip it all off and start all over. Expect to do this every 7 or so years.
Again, I strongly suggest painted walnut as the best for longevity.
Bald cypress is an excellent choice for anything exposed to the weather. I do alot of historical restorations and the specs almost always call for cypress for exterior trim elements. Also, the price is right( In our region at least ).
Best of luck,
Sean
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