Replies

1. 
   lwilliams | May 29, 2002 07:07am | #1

   forest girl,

   I've made them from cherry, walnut, white oak, beech, persimmon and probably some other woods that escape memory right now. I like persimmon best but think, of those you listed, maple would be best if it's quarter-sawn. I suggest quarter-sawn stock, not for dimensional stability, but to get the rays running parallel to the top of the saw. Rays tend to be the weak point in wood and flat sawn stock would orient them so as to offer a weak point through the thickness of the insert. Flat sawn stock would offer less resistance to breakage and collapse under stress or shock and there may well be times that the insert is supporting the entire piece being cut like when cutting the slot for a bridle joint.

1. 
   forestgirl | May 29, 2002 07:48am | #2

   Hmmmm, I have an old QS oak parlor table top laying around (some fool drilled a hole in the top -- looks like for an umbrella.  Sheesh!).  Could use that I suppose.  My aforementioned friend was concerned about oak possibly splintering, but sounds like if it were QS, it would be ok.

   Appreciate the tips!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   RogerMartini | May 29, 2002 12:56pm | #3

   this is not in your list of scraps, but I plan on using scraps of baltic birch plywood the next time I make some inserts.

   Close enough for government work
1. 
   forestgirl | May 29, 2002 06:51pm | #8

   To Roger, eddie, TERRE5 and Ron -- I've often wondered why I've never seen plywood recommended for these.  Seems sensible, affordable, even logical.  Actually made one insert a couple of weeks ago (butchered one would be a better description :) from plywood.  Great minds think alike, and don't worry about being fancy I guess.  Thanks for coming out of hiding to save me a bunch of hassle!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   eddiefromAustralia | May 29, 2002 03:15pm | #4

   Hi,

   Plywood is the commonsense option - less chance of splitting or breaking , which could be disastrous.

   regards,

4. 
   TERRE5 | May 29, 2002 04:35pm | #5

   I have a JET contractor's saw and made some for the first time the other night.  Had to be one of the easiest things I have ever done in the shop.  I rough cut one out of 1/2" Birch plywood scrap and finished off with a flush trim router bit.  Put a piece of 80 grit paper on the ROS and fine tuned them.  They sit just a touch lower than the table surface, and that's easily fixed with masking tape.

   I did get some tear out on the bottom after raising the blade, but who cares???

   Make sure you clamp a 2x4 or something similar across the table while you raise the blade.

1. 
   crosscutter | May 29, 2002 05:06pm | #6

   FG (this is Ron incognito..really) I think any stable wood will do. Ive used oak and maple and soon pecan/hickory.

5. 
   sschefer | May 29, 2002 05:44pm | #7

   Jamie, use 3/8 plywood and make sure that the grain on the top surface is running parallel to the blade. You will make so many over time that this becomes the only economical way to do it.

   For example, you'll have one for just about every width of dado you ever cut. There will be one for the rip blade (not really necessary), one for the thin kerf blade, one for the thin kerf with stabilizers, etc, etc, etc... And every time you re-align your saw you'll need to make new ones. I make mine and then mark them so that I know what setup I used when I made it.

   You can buy a plate with a replaceable insert from WoodCraft but they are 99.00 I think.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   forestgirl | May 29, 2002 06:57pm | #9

   Hi Steve, yep I was seeing how easily I could end up needing a mound of plates.  Must beg you though, not to mention the phrase "re-align you saw" for at least 6 months!  It gives me nightmares LOL!

   Do you use tape with the 3/8" ply to make the insert flush?  I've seen those Woodcraft dealies, but couldn't imagine buying into such an expensive system for such a simple item.  Never could figure out how the other MDF plates got to be so expensive either ($20 ea).  Maybe it's because they have to custom-thickness the stock.

   Well, a quick look around here, and then out to make a dado plate.  Have a good one!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Sancho | May 30, 2002 02:58am | #10

   Why dont people reconmend plywood well why is dont is because: I imagine you could use plywood but to get the correct fit meaning if your insert is say 1/2" then your ply would have to be 1/2( not undersized a 1/32 or 1/16 to fit or you'd have to make some adjustments. 

     I just think its easier to take a piece of soild wood and plane it to size. But seriously most of this kind of stuff is personal preferance. You'll get many opinions and there all correct. If it works for you great. As I have said many times "If we were all the same we would all be driving Dodges" Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

1. 
   forestgirl | May 30, 2002 04:33am | #11

   Well, since I don't have a planer (yet), my option if using solid wood is to wait until the weekend when my island ww'ing buddy is home and has time to plane it for me (hand planing isn't an option for me either).

   So, I'll be using 3/8" ply and adding a shim to it, or using 1/2" and dadoing a relief underneath to make it fit (actually did it this way this morning and it worked pretty well).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   nigelUsa | May 30, 2002 04:54am | #12

   In my dewalt 746 I used a piece of Corian. (Left over sink cutout.) It is the perfect thickness for my saw. If you need a thinner piece then cut to size then router around the sides to form a step. Mmmmmmmmmm corian topped table saw, I wonder....

2. 
   TERRE5 | May 31, 2002 07:02pm | #22

   ...........uuuuuuuuuHHHHHHHHHHHH...............

   Make sure you DO NOT TILT your blade with the Corian Zero clearance insert.  Or you will be looking for some more Corian ON CLEARANCE.

   Must I explain?  This happened immediately after aligning my saw.  All for naught.

3. 
   sschefer | May 31, 2002 07:12pm | #23

   No need to explain.. been there done that... LOL..

   Steve - in Northern California

4. 
   SCFrankland | May 31, 2002 08:21pm | #26

   Steve if you mark the location of the blade on the insert and then drop it over a 1/4" router bit to make a place for the blade to start in. Then there is no reason to try avoiding cutting off ones fingers this way. Another way is in use a small diameter blade like one in a dado set or a circular saw blade set in the tablesaw to make the first cut.Scott C. Frankland

   Newfoundland Wood Worker

5. 
   sschefer | May 31, 2002 08:30pm | #27

   You're right and I didnt want to post that because it just sounds dangerous. Actually its pretty safe because the blade is all of the way down and your fingers are well out of the way. It is actually a recommended method in several of my shop jig books.Steve - in Northern California

6. 
   NormInFujino | May 31, 2002 07:12pm | #24

   Another alternative is Lexan, or cast acrylic in the proper thickness. A bit pricey, but it's kinda "cool" to see through. View Image

7. 
   forestgirl | May 31, 2002 08:13pm | #25

   I dunno, I'd be more likely to paint my red, if I could be sure it wouldn't come off on my wood.  I really, really want the location of the blade to be smacking me upside the head (metaphorically speaking) whenever I'm working.  I'll admit, though, the are cool looking.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

6. 
   JPGrout | May 30, 2002 05:45am | #13

   fg

   Skip the alder it is way too soft. I know we create lots of alder scrap and had a laborer build a dozen of them one time. They lasted about a month apiece.

   I have had good luck with qs oak and qs maple, but if you have some 1/2" melimine laying around it works amazingly well. As for leveling I usually just find some 1/2" flat head screws , countersink the top so the screws sit flush or a bit low. Drive the screws in pilot hole and knock the sharp point off. It works very well and you can level the plate perfectly from the top of the saw. Shims are really just a Pain after you do a couple like this. Good luck Joe

7. 
   lwilliams | May 30, 2002 05:46am | #14

   I wasn't happy with the one insert I made from baltic birch ply. It never did seem to settle down and kept twisting seasonally. A different piece may not have the same stresses in it but there's always plenty of scrap solid stock around here.

   I don't shim my inserts. I use set screws and tap holes for them almost like you would if they were metal. The difference is that I don't tap full depth. With a standard tap I stop about 1/8" shy of running the tapered end all the way through. This makes for a firm grip on the set screw which keeps it where you want it.

   I prefer an insert that's easily adjustable. I don't want it tilting my stock or creating a proud edge. If my inserts don't come up dead flat with the top, I either adjust, fix or trash them.

1. 
   DonStephan | May 30, 2002 01:51pm | #15

   Most of my inserts are 1/2" MDF and I've not had any problem. Wanted to drill and tap for allen screws but never got around to it, and have never noticed any problem with insert being a hair low. And whenever I remove the insert, always seems to be layer of built up sawdust under the insert anyway.

1. 
   forestgirl | May 30, 2002 07:39pm | #16

   I just wish the Jet insert thickness matched some kind of off-the-shelf wood thickness.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   sschefer | May 30, 2002 08:14pm | #17

   Ahh, you still havent found the trick yet huh.... Use 7/16 ply... A lot of times it will be sold as 3/8 and sometimes its sold as 1/2. I found this out by accident. Anyway, its readily available at HD.

   Then make yourself a template. First cut the basic shape, a bit proud, using the outline of your stock plate. Then take a piece of double sided tape and stick the wood template to your plate. Finaly, put a flush trim bit in your router table and use the stock plate as the bearing guide to trim up the template. You'll end up with a perfect replica of your stock plate with 4 little nubs, two on each side of the edges of the template piece, don't sand these off.

   Now take this template and use it in the same manner to repeat the process as many times as you need. These will be your future blanks so when you need one, just drop it in the slot, put a hold down board over a non cut area and raise the blade. Simple, efficient and not very time consuming at all. With the 7/16 there is no need for shims or dado's and the little nubs on the sides will help to keep it straight in the slot. 

   O.K. I knew you were going to ask me again how to get around the too tall blade problem... Well O.K. but be careful. Just take the plate and insert it into the slot at the front of the blade with the rear raised high enough to clear the blade. You will be holding this with your fingers so be mindful where they are.

   Then, take a piece of flat stock and lay it across the end that is fully seated in the throat area. Turn on the saw, apply a slight amount of pressure to the scrap piece and gently lower the insert onto the blade. As soon as you feel the tips of your fingers hit the table top, gradually slide the scrap more towards the center, apply more pressure to the scrap and let go of the plate. This cut will be more of a score than anything and this process definitely sounds more difficult than it is. However, anytime your hands are that close to the spinning sharp thing you are in danger so please be very careful.Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   forestgirl | May 30, 2002 10:47pm | #18

   Ahhhh, you just had to give me an excuse to trek into HD, didn't you? LOL, like I need one!  If I can find the right stuff, I'll be a happy, happy camper!  I think, perhaps, I'll stick with my dado-blade technique for the underneath relief part.  Definitely want to use the flush-trim for final shaping, but have to get my router problem straightened out.  In the meantime, a belt sander and drum sander seem to get the job done -- not pretty, but done.

   Where do the 'nubs' come from?  Maybe your throat plate, having been made in modern times, unlike mine, is a little different.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   sschefer | May 30, 2002 10:58pm | #21

   My plate has little nubs in the casting. Guess its something new.Steve - in Northern California

3. 
   forestgirl | May 30, 2002 10:50pm | #19

   PS:  Any chance you could send a pic of the little display case you built?  I've been curious how it turned out.  Never was quite sure how the door part was constructed.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

4. 
   sschefer | May 30, 2002 10:56pm | #20

   Sure, no problem with the pics. I'll see if I can get it done tonight, if not, then tommorow evening. Steve - in Northern California