I’m using natural maple for stair treads, risers and skirts, What is recommended to fill small gaps and cracks.
Edited 4/9/2005 6:13 pm ET by tomas
I’m using natural maple for stair treads, risers and skirts, What is recommended to fill small gaps and cracks.
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Replies
If we want it dead nuts on, we use wax crayons just before the final coat of finish.
Or wood filler in a can-some brands are made with real maple sawdust and are the closest in
woodfillers to maple colour...
silver
Thanks silver, I'll try and find the sawdust filler.
This question comes up quite a bit and I strongly suggest that you experiment with whatever filler you get before you use it. Some fillers show up like a neon sign. - lol
I use the wax crayon trick (mixing colors if I need to) after I've stained and before I put on the finish.
In my experience, I have had problems finishing over wax fillers. Some finishes won't adhere to the wax. I would be cautious with this method. Sometimes I'll using wax fillers/crayons after finishing to fill holes and cracks , then buff to match sheen of final finish.
I haven't tried it but what about a mix of sawdust and BLO? I recall hearing about that somewhere and of course depending on the final finish and color it could probably be stainded easily.Andy"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
from my experience, sawdust and glue doesn't match wood well after finishing.
Wood-Tex makes a great filler. Comes in many flavors and dries in 5 minutes. You may have to look around your area or on the web for a supplier.
Bear
Tomas,
The topic of filling defects in wood comes up a lot down here. Our eucalyptus species can be full of holes and gum veins. I've experimented with waxes and putty's (awful), fine sawdust and epoxy resins (good) and epoxy resins and colouring oxides (great).
Using a resin base for fixing defects provides a superbly strong and easily sanded fill that looks great under every finish that I'm familiar with. It will also act to stop splits and cracks continuing to open.
Below is a link to a thread in an Australian woodworking forum discussing wood filling. There are other discussions in the archives.
Good luck with it.
Richard
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16307
epoxy resins and colouring oxides (great).
Using a resin base for fixing defects provides a superbly strong and easily sanded fill that looks great under every finish that I'm familiar with. It will also act to stop splits and cracks continuing to open.
Yo Woodhead,
Sounds good but what is epoxy resin and colouring oxide...source? also known as?
I'm an old dog who would like to learn a new trick...
hiho silver
Yo Silver....Epoxy resins (or sometimes just called 'resins') are slow setting two part mixes. It's the stuff they usually whack on fibreglass when they're sticking boats & surfboards together. But, hey, it works great sticking wood as well. Once you add the hardener to the resin, there's no stopping it.... 9-12 hours later you have a rock hard.... epoxy resin. Look at the link below... West System, probably the best epoxy, made in your neck of the woods. Coloring oxides... Down here we call them "brickies oxides". Bricklayers use them to colour cement motors (sp?). You can buy about 15 different colors at any local hardware - in litre tubs. They're cheap, but immensely "strong". You only need add a pinch to the resin mix and it gives the mix whatever color you're chasing. Sometimes you have to experiment with combinations of colors to get exactly what you're after. Don't have a link for you, but I bet whoever sells cement over there will know about coloring agents.http://www.westsystem.com/Hope this helps Silver,Richard
Thanks Richard,
clear as mud
west system epoxy...ah, now you're talking my langauge...that's in my bag of tricks for tough
glue-ups requiring excessive bond strength and/or waterproof.
ok so mix west system with mortar colouring oxide...basically dry pigment...to the shade you want...then what? fill nail holes and cracks? how do you deal with the excess?
let dry and remove with a razor blade?
dab with acetone to remove excess?
I'm out of the loop...where are you?
silver
Silver,You can use Westsystem epoxy both for normal gluing operations and as a hole / gum vein filling fix-all. You work it into the defects with a spatula if it's been thickened. Or you can pour / dribble it in if you've left it runny. I strongly recommend not using it on "finished" timber. After the stuff has gone off, it sets rock hard and sands easily. I usually overfill my defects (or leave a glue line bead on edge joined boards) - then just sand back the next day (80 or 100 grit belt sander or orbital). I sometimes work with really awful looking eucalyptus slabs - full of cracks and gum veins / holes, etc etc. After filling all the defects you can hardly see "fresh" timber. Looks like a nightmare. But next day, after sanding it back - the transformation is pretty spectacular. This stuff also handles all finishes very well.Let me know if you need more info.I'm in Margaret River, Australia.Richard
Hi woodhead
Thanks for the info on the fillers. I have a slab of mahogany that I'll be using for a breakfast bar. I'm not very experienced with wood. It's planed, and I'm wondering how I can find out if it's dried out enough to use in my house. I live in Canada, so there are different temperatures throughout the season. Maybe I should have it kiln dried?
I'm thinking of just sanding the heck out of it and putting a tung oil finish on it ... is that a good idea?
Thanks
Angel
Angel, if your mahogony slab is already planed (by that I mean "finish" planed), I'm assuming it must have been dried / seasoned before planing? Usually that's the procedure. (To finish plane something unseasoned would be weird because all the big movement in slabs happen during drying). Is it fairly flat now? Do you know when it was cut? When it was planed? As a rough rule of thumb, timber air dries (in Australia anyway) at about one year per inch. So if the slab is 3 inches thick, it'll take at least 3 years to air dry. Although I go by the rule, "a year per inch, plus a year". Timber drying / movement is a whole science. But I think the bottom line is you need to try to get the timber to be stable at the moisture / humidity level that it will eventually live in. So if your slab has acclimatised to the approximate heat/humidity level of your kitchen, you're OK. If not, it might do all kinds of strange things once you bring it into your kitchen. Kiln drying would be good because in a kitchen and with central heating, I bet it's a very dry environment? Try to get a moisture content reading on the slab. (Know anyone with a moisture meter?) I'd suggest you need it down to about 10-12%? But someone local would have the best advice on that.Once it's dry, you can "flatten" by sanding or planing. Sanding the heck out of it will get you there. But a hand plane or electric plan would be better if there's a lot of flattening to do.There are SOOOOO many finishing options. It depends on what you're chasing. I find straight Tung Oil darkens some timber too much, and dries quite flat - you don't get to see the nice grain of the timber. Danish Oils are combinations of Tung Oils and about 20-30% polyurethane. By working hard (very hard) - you can get a better finish (satin sheen) that better shows off the timber features. For a breakfast bar, you need something water / scratch resistant. Down here we have products that are about 50/50 tung oil and ployurethane (OR - you can mix your own , I do) which give great protection to the wood, and a really nice finish. You need at least 2 coats (I'd suggest 3 in your case), with a fine (320 grit) orbital sand between coats. If you can spray the last coat (or all coats) on, you get a beautiful smooth finish. Good luck with it. (Where in Canada?)Richard
Thanks Richard,
You live in Oz? Totally cool...I think I would like to travel through Austrialia when I'm not working 24/7 that is...ran into a student today would was just back from New Zealand-said it reminded her of Canada but smaller...
Anyway-thanks for the info...may come in handy on my present nightmare/project that involves lots of walnut veneer.
What do you make from the eucalyptus slabs after you whip them into shape with the "resin"?
Do you have a picture of Margaret River, Australia?
best regards,
silver
Silver, this place is a bit like northern California / Oregon, with the volcanoes & earthquakes. Very pretty - forests, ocean, vineyards - but lots of tourits too. Bummer during holiday season, but keeps the local businesses going. Will take a photo of my workshop.Make all sorts with slabs. Cabinet tops, table tops, bench seats, etc. What do you teach?Regards,Richard
Richard,
Do you have pictures of your work? sounds beautiful.
I teach woodworking and cabinet making at the local community college-I enjoy teaching, giving something back to the trade; it's a challenge for me and keeps me sharp.
Otherwise, I'm making something custom from handrails to cabinets to new homes to conference tables, multi media cabinets and remodelling...keeps me out of the bars most of the time.
Speaking of slab tops on cabinets, a few years ago,I found a bookcase under a dropcloth in the shop with a slab top and bark edge. I looked at it closely-damn I says to myself-wish I made this.
Turns out my lady made it for me as a surprise birthday present...she makes some very beautiful rustic pieces that always blow me away...wish I could say I taught her all she knows but she is mostly self taught...
regards,
silver
Edited 4/16/2005 5:01 pm ET by silver
Silver,I'll crank up the digital camera. Just finished a rustic TV/ Stereo cabinet with a slab top. Made from a local species "Marri". It's a lighter coloured wood but full of gum veins and pockets. I used a clear epoxy resin "pour" fill over the slab top (after "bogging" up the underside defects with a viscous resin fill, tinted black). So now you can "look into" all the defects, especially the deeper gum holes. It's a neat effect. Like looking into the "heart" of the wood. It's a very rustic kind of appearance, but the timber is actually finished to a very high level. Sanded through to 240. Everything is very smooth / manicured (no "rough stuff"). and then sprayed with a top of the range Swedish lacquer. So while it looks like timber in the "raw", it also looks very crafted. If that makes sense.This part of the world is like "slab central". Lots of big timber and doing slab furniture is fairly popular. (Takyama "Soul of a Tree" type work). There's a guy in Australia who's invented / markets a slab flattening machine called "Slabmaster". Instead of spending hours & hours planing a slab flat, this thing has a 8 inch horizontal blade running off a big motor - which runs on a flat gantry / bed. You can flatten a 12 foot long and 4-5 foot wide slab (both sides) in about 30 minutes. Sounds like you're very much a professional woodworker. I was a geologist in a previous life. Then retired (early) 5 years ago to a farm and have been working wood since then. Mostly self taught but did some nightschool and hired some local craftsman to help me build furniture for my house. And learned from them. A LOT.Where in the US are you? I spent 15 years there, mostly Oklahoma. Richard
Silver, if my daughter has done this right (I'm not a computer whiz...), you'll see some pics... Three of the "Marri" cabinet and 2 of a dual slab Jarrah table. Both had lots of epoxy resin infill to the tops.>>>>>>>>> WE TRIED>>>>>>>>Silver, anybody,We tried mightily to attach picture files. I have a Mac with iphoto that is normally slick and easy to do with anything digital. But when we tried to attach the files using the "Attach Files" button - and went through the routine ... choose file / upload / done etc ........ Nothing happened. Any ideas??????Regards,Richard
You two have got something going,so won't interupt,except to say I use a bit of Tasmanian oak,which is a type of gum.That's here in NZ.:-)
Sounds interesting...what do you make in NZ with Tasmanian oak,which is a type of gum?
Two students of mine recently returned from NZ with glowing reviews-said it was really beautiful and unlike Nothwestern ontario,things were close together so you could see a lot in a day.
They talk about TEXAS being big but you can drive at 100k for 20 hours and still be in Ontario!
I passed my citizenship test today so soon I can say: I am CANADIAN!
best regards,
silver
What were you prior to being a Canadian?
Tas.Oak is used for Furniture,doors etc.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/cicero1520/westofMcKinnon.jpg
If you are a outdoors man then NZ would appeal.
Canada always sounds a bit cold for me.
I am in the South Island,Christchurch,where we get good frosts in the winter,usually accompanied with beautiful days.
Cicero,
I was born in the USA.
but Canada has my heart-an idealist society that tries to value peace and non-violence in a
multicultural society. I'll be a duallie-us/canada.
The local joke is 6 months of winter, 6 months of tough sledding.
As for cold,we prefer to call it fresh.
-40 F is fffing fresh.
Apparently the cold stunts our brains in the winter because when spring arrives-like it is right now-everyone just seems to open up and smile and get all giddy about the mild temps-&the warm sun-good if you dig contrasts
Then we get seduced with summer and don't even mind the droves of mosquitos and black flies(which is why northerns are gidy right now-no bugs-)
All of a sudden come September -it gets cold again-and the cycle starts again-omygod firewood!
It's in my book-The True North for Dummies...
cheers,
silver
Edited 4/19/2005 11:52 pm ET by silver
You should read Mark Stein a fellow Canadian.
Mind you,if you are left wing I wouldn't bother.
http://www.ideasfactory.com/writing/features/writ_feature20.htm
I usually use a latex wood filler with a color close to the wood. Colors can be mixed to get closer. Then I use colored pencils (I have an assortment in various shades of brown and tan) to tweak the final color. It is even possible to stripe it in different shades to blend with the grain of the wood if the grain is pronounced.
For nail heads, I find they are less noticeable if they are a little too dark rather than a little too light. Dark spots look more natural than light ones.
If you fit the components right you should not have any gaps or cracks, only nail heads.
I repair furniture for a living, and the best method I've run across is to use a "burn in" stick that is heated, pressed in, and leveled off. This is done after the staining process. The color can be fine tuned to an exact match, including grain patterns, using Blendal powder stains mixed with alcohol or graining liquid. The down side to all of this is it takes some practice to get the procedure down. The burn in sticks are more durable than the wax. I use the Mohawk brand, and they may even have a "starter kit" available. They have a website, http://www.mohawk-finishing.com.
thanks for the site...I'll check it out...this burn in wax thing has always fascinated me but I don't have much patience for learning curves...one of the reasons I enjoy the forum so much...it likes shorthand when you wnat to learn something new.
best regards,
silver
You're gonna have to show me how to do that someday.
GarryWoodWorks by Garry
Hey, no problem! I might even have an extra electric knife and some fill sticks for you to practice with. Not much to it, but the fine points take a little time to master.
I use apoxy called builders bog,also used by panel beaters.
Also use cement colouring,works very well.
If you are staining, Zar wood patch takes stain very well. If you are going natural, I like Famowood filler. You may want to use pine for light maple and maple for red oak, they seem to match better.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
For an easy way to fill in those cracks, use a fill stick. I have been using the ones from a company called touch up solutions. They have a wide selection colors that match almost any wood grain. Here is a link to their website: http://www.touchupsolutions.com/home-user-shop/furniture-fill-sticks. With the fill stick I just apply pressure over the crack until it is filled in all the way. Then I simply just scrape any excess wax that is left with a credit card. Hope this helps!
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