Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 26, 2003 09:58pm | #1

   I got my system idea from a mag (Amer. Woodworking, I think), here's a page with pictures.  It's strong, has adjustable supports, clean lines and pretty easy to build.  I have 2 or 3x more wood in it now than when the pics were taken.  Plan to expand it to fill up the rest of the wall.

   http://www.islandpastimes.com/Knots/LumberRack.htm

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 26, 2003 10:03pm | #2

   Didn't realize how little info I had put in that page -- details were discussed in a long-ago thread.  The basics are:  2x4's on edge fastened to the wall, with galvanized pipe placed in holes that were at a 5* (or was it 15*??) angle to keep the wood firmly against the wall.  I got the pipe at Home Depot, and they cut it to length for free.  The wall is concrete up to about 7', so the only bolts I have through the 2x4 are in the upper part where the wood is.  I used brackets to hold in the bottoms of the 2x4's and put a 2x4 brace across the top, nailed to the joists, to prevent any tipping out.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   LarryPile | Jul 27, 2003 12:08am | #3

   Very nice.....  Seems like the remaining wood in the 2x4s would be prone to splitting/giving way....No?

   What kind of weight have you put on the pipe? 

   Is it 3/4 pipe?

   Did you just drill the holes with a drill press at angle or use some kind of jig and a hand drill?

   Thanks again FG!

   lp 

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 27, 2003 02:11am | #4

   Hi Larry, glad you liked it well enough to ask some questions!  I was worried only about the wood splitting out the sides, since there's only about 1/4" on either side of the pipe.  But once I got it up and started using it, I realized that I'd have to really bash something around to make those split out.  I'm just carefull when putting wood up or taking it down not to force those pipes sideways too much.

   Those two walnut slabs you see are about 1' wide and over 1" thick, 10 feet long.  How heavy would they be?  Maybe one of our engineer-types knows.  I've got 4/4 oak stacked on most of the other sections now.  Nothing light, for sure.

   I used a drill press to drill the holes -- it (the rack) was a great excuse to get a better bench-top drill press with more capacity and a ratcheting table, LOL!  Used a spade bit.  Learned alot about using the drill press in the process.  Also selected the 2x4's pretty carefully and planned the holes around the knots.

   Can't remember the ID of the pipe, which is how you ask for it, but the OD must have been 1" because I remember that there's 1/4" left on either side of the pipe, and the 2x4 is 1.5" wide.  Howz that for math?!

   LMK if you have any other questions.  I kinda remember where I saw the article so could give you other details if you needed.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 31, 2003 06:07pm | #11

   Hi, Forrest,

   I hate to say it but from an engineering standpoint, I see several problems. You're ending up with an extremely heavy compression load on very weak 2x4's. On top of that, they have holes drilled through the strong (long) side. The rack is dependant on the columns remaining perfectly in column. It will take only slight bowing and going out of collumn for the wood to begin to kink and collapse. A really nasty accident could occur if that happened. Pine is really poor on compression loading. Don't foget the effects of constant load over time. I think you've exceeded the load carrying limit for those small timbers. The compression load limit for 2" structural pine is only 300 psi. That would be WITHOUT any holes!!!! Yourls looks to be only 1.5". Data source: US Navy Manual on Wood for Use in Shipbuilding.

   It's better to be safe than sorry and I'd suggest that you strengthen those columns. You can do that easily by gluing and nailing additional 2 x 4's on each side of the existing columns. That will surely prevent them from going out of column. I'll feel a lot safer for you. A friend of mine was just killed several days ago doing something he didn't understand, so I"m feeling really sensitive about accidents right about now, not that I'm suggesting that you are being foolish. I'm a naval architect by education so I know a bit about wood under load.

   Edited 7/31/2003 11:13:13 AM ET by boatman

   Edited 7/31/2003 11:18:44 AM ET by boatman

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 31, 2003 08:17pm | #12

   Hi boatman.  My sincere condolences on the loss of your friend.

   With respect to the rack, it seems to have met with success in others' shops.  If it crashes, I'm not likely to be underneath it.  BTW, those 2x4's are Doug fir, not pine.  I'm not about to argue the engineering with you, because I don't know from engineering, LOL!, with the load spread over 4 sets of  2x4's, and static 99.9% of the time, I just can't find it in myself to worry much.

   Pondering the design in an intuitive way (the only way I can, really), I see each stack of wood supported by 4 pipes that are exerting their cantilevered force on the endgrain of the wood.  Taking the 2 walnut slabs, and guessing at the outside they weight 100 lbs. together, that's 25lbs. average on each pipe.  Oak load may be similar, alder much less.  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 31, 2003 09:32pm | #14

   Okay, well Doug fir runs 390-455 psi on a 2" wide, depending on grade. Compare that with 4,610 psi for white oak. I only noted two columns but you said four. I assume the bolts are merely holding it in place. You have to be real careful with long columns like that because the collapse will be sudden and without warning signs. You said you had 3-4 x the weight on now as in photo. I guessed that you had about 800 in photo, so if you've got 2400 on there your way over.

   The problem with that design is that not only do the holes weaken the column by a factor of at least 60%, but the pipes put a tortional load on them, which works to throw the posts out of column. My concern was not the load on individual pipes, but the whole load on the entire column. If the column crushes, it will likely be at the lowermost hole where the greatest compession load is focused.

3. 
   forestgirl | Jul 31, 2003 09:59pm | #15

   Some clarifying details:  Yes, there are 4 uprights covering about 8 feet of wall space, with wood maximum 10' in length.  Lag bolts are screwed into the wood-framed part of the wall, a "header"(??) braced across the top of the 2x4's and screwed to the joists to hold the top in place, and the bottoms of the 2x4's strapped in place into the concrete wall.  [The lower two pictures show these aspects up close.]

   Weight:  Holy Smokes!  The original lumber load, at the time of the picture-taking, was probably 200 lbs. max., so no I don't have 2400 lbs. of lumber on the rack -- don't I wish for that much wood!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

4. 
   nikkiwood | May 23, 2004 08:13pm | #16

   I use a slight variation of your (forest girl's) system -- both in my garage and shop. And I have guided 3-4 of my friends through building a similar system.

   I set it up 10-12 years ago, and I think the idea originally came from Woodsmith or Shop Notes.

   I have loaded these units with an enormous amount of lumber, and have never had a problem.

   In my garage for instance, the unit is 10' high and 12' long. 2 X 4's were lagged to a brick wall, and spaced 16" O/C. I ran a 2 X 4 across the top of the unit, lagged to the ceiling rafter, to make sure the unit would never tip away from the wall. At the moment, this particular unit is fully loaded -- half with white oak, and half with pressure treated stock.

   Per the Woodsmith instructions, I made a simple jig that allowed me to drill holes (across the 3 1/2" width) in the 2 X 4's at a 3º angle, and cut up 15" sections of 3/4" pipe for holders. I used old water pipe salvaged from a rennovation.

   With some trepidation, I helped a friend build a unit using the structural 2 X 4 side walls of his garage. I am no engineer, and so I convinced him to use the unit for relatively light loads, since I feared an overload might affect the structural integrity of the garage. The unit has now been in use for 6-7 years, with a heavier load of lumber added over the years, and there has been no apparent problem.

   This is a great system -- flexible and strong.

   Edited 5/23/2004 2:41 pm ET by nikkiwood

5. 
   tsproul | May 24, 2004 06:12pm | #18

   I've got a similar situation as forestgirl's. Those are 8 ft long doug fir 2x4's. They rest on the floor...well, there's about 24 mil of plastic and a piece of OSB separating the 2x4 from the concrete...and are lagged to the wall at the very top...about a foot down from there and at about the middle. Lag screws point downward a bit as you screw them in and a washer helps prevent crushing of the wood. Also...those are dry 2x4's....I highly recommend using dry lumber for this. Green lumber will shrink...and every thing will loosen...damhikt!...the lags and the pipe. If you use green 2x4's.....you'll need to periodically (depending on how dry your shop is) take the lumber down and tighten the lags and the pipe. You may run into the situation that I did....I had to rebuild because many of the holes for the pipe worked themselves loose.

   I used 1/2 inch iron pipe... cut to ~18 inch lengths and threaded on one end. I used a 13/16 forstner bit and screwed - yes, there was just enough bite for the threads - the iron pipe in. I have no idea how many degrees I canted the holes...I laid a shim down one side of the drill press table and bored away. A pair of vise grips helps to thread the pipe in completely. I think I went ~2 inches deep.

   Each level has ~6 inches vertical space and the 2 outer columns are ~8 ft apart. I have since loaded even more lumber up there....

   works....I haven't had any issues yet and it has seen a fair amount of use/abuse over the last year. I suppose I should use straps or similar mechanism to try and keep the boards from falling off in case of earthquake....as I'm in the San Francisco area.....Tim

   On the neverending quest for wood.

   
3. 
   clarkie | Jul 27, 2003 05:32am | #5

   larry  my wood rack is very much the same as forest girls. i used 3/4 electrical conduit in place of pipe. i am a plumber  and have seen enough pipe! the conduit is very strong in the lengths needed for the average rack. you can cut it very easily with a hacksaw. i covered the ends of my conduit with rubber tips like you see on the end of a cane.. found them at the local hw store . the conduit is just about .900 and the tips are sold as 7/8". they work great and may keep you from taking some skin off the  knuckles. good luck.  bob 

4. 
   jackiechan | Jul 27, 2003 08:04am | #6

   Larry,

   I've enclosed a graphic of the sheet goods storage racks that I build for my shop.  The unit is very strong, and is easily built using 2x4's, 2x6's, some 3/4" plywood, and an assortment of carriage bolts, lag screws, nuts, and washers.  Sheet goods are stored on their long edge, and leaned against the back panel of the rack.  To access a particular piece, the outer section is tipped back away from the wall, by which, the legs support section tips down and rests on the floor to support the outer panel.  The stored wood can then be tipped one way or another (like an open book) to allow access to the desired stock.  When finished, the remaining sheet stock is tipped back onto the wall side panel, and the outer panel/leg support is tipped towards that to give greater space efficiency.  (The picture doesn't show it, but there should be a nylon cord or chain strung between the outer panel and leg support to prevent the legs from tipping too far away from the unit.  Also, the bottom picture in the graphic shows the back of the unit - the one that is in direct contact with the wall.)

   If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/27/2003 1:07:05 AM ET by Jackie Chan

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/28/2003 10:41:44 PM ET by Jackie Chan

   
1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 27, 2003 07:51pm | #7

   Tres Cool, Dan!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

5. 
   patricks13 | Jul 28, 2003 11:00am | #8

   Larry,

    

   I like to keep wood horizontal with downward pressure to keep it flat. For this reason I leave enough space to stack a number of boards and put weights on top of that. This works best if the boards have an even thickness. I usually run rough boards through the planner so I don't have one or two uneven boards causing the boards on top to warp.

    

   I put one 24" wide shelf 7' up the wall surrounding most of my shop. My studs are 24" oc so that is were I put the supports. Basically I started with a 2 by 4 with a hole in it with a 1/2" pipe through the hole and a 1/4" by 3/4" steel bar stock welded on the end and dadoed into the board. The board is screwed onto the wall. Then I screwed and welded a piece of that same size bar stock touching the bottom of the pipe and reaching about 5" down. Then I welded a piece of the bar stock from the far tip of the pipe to the bottom of the 5" piece. If you screw all the 2 by 4's so the pipe holes are level and weld the bottom brace so the pipe is level it will give you a strong surface to stack your wood flat and out of the way.

    

   I keep my sheet goods up tight and vertical on end in a corner with a horizontal 2 by 4 with lots of holes in it and a 3/4" pipe stuck in the 2 by 4's to keep the boards together. I used two 2 by 4's with spacers in-between for the holes to give the pipe leverage.
6. 
   AlanTurner | Jul 30, 2003 12:27am | #9

   Oh but that i had room for a rack.  But, that doesn't stop the planning.  I write to mention that not all plywood is 4 x 8.  Baltic Birch is 5 x 5, which is a size you might choose to accomadate also, since you seem to be starting from scratch.

   Alan

1. 
   LarryPile | Jul 30, 2003 11:37pm | #10

   Thanks Alan..and everyone else.

   I'm going to try Forestgirl's method...I'll let you know the results and post pictures.

   L~

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 31, 2003 08:25pm | #13

   Hi Larry, I checked the pipe -- the OD is 7/8" (1/2" ID).  If I can answer any ?'s let me know!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

7. 
   fdampier5 | May 23, 2004 09:02pm | #17

   Well the first 10,000 bd.ft went into the house, the next 10,000 went into the driveway, the next ten thousand went into the driveway too but by then  I started to use the first 10,000.  The last 10,00 are scattered around, on the deck, in the basement,  on the bridge and on the roof..

        Delivery's next week will also go on the roof.. My hope is that there won't be too many more loads . right now I spend 20% of my time moving wood around..