Anybody here use a wood stove in their garage/woodshop? Seems like a good idea, in terms of using wood scraps for heat. But what about the issue of open flame near finishes, sawdust, etc?
– Toolfreak
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Replies
I have both a wood stove and a forced hot air furnace. There is no problem with the stove in the shop as long as it is installed properly. Remember an airtight stove has no open flame. It sucks air in and combusts. I wouldnt be spraying finishes around it however but I assume you know better than that
Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I have a small one I've yet to install. I cherish the thought of sitting by it feeding off cuts from projects while drinking a warm or cold beverage depending on the whether.
Be advised to buy some cord wood also. I save all my big cutoffs to get the fire going but if I want to be able to work on a project for any length of time and keep a nice fire going I put the cord wood to 'er. Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I haven't blown up yet and it a great way to get rid of your mistakes
Ive use a wood stove for about five years no problem. I do use a heater to preheat the shop untill the wood stove is warmed up or if I"m only out there for a short time.
My "barn" has a wood stove for heat. I've done it this way for nearly 20 years in northern New York state. Someday I'm going to insulate it too. While its sometimes cold and finishes can take to long to dry, I wouldn't have it any other way. Around me is acre after acre of white pine and what better way to make use of the dead stuff. Temperature and humidity control are important but we all know that colonial craftsmen did not have that luxury and they produced some of the best furniture ever constructed. My biggest complaint would be on behalf of the tools. Liberal amounts of WD-40 prevent rust.
Edited 2/15/2005 7:49 pm ET by DM
TF -
I recently installed a wood stove in my shop and it's working out quite well. Except for one minor ... well not so minor with respect to my up wind neighbor.
Being somewhat new to the care and feeding of wood stoves, mine seems to be a real 'smoker'. I try to burn seasoned wood, dry as I can keep it here in the Pacific NW. But still it seems to produce a great deal of smoke when I have it throttled down to a slow burn. The least amount of smoke is produced with the doors open whereby, I'm presuming, there is more complete combustion. Although I was under the impression that a properly designed wood stove did, in fact, produce better combustion than an open fireplace.
The stack is a straight run from the stove to directly through the roof boot above. Stack ht is, I'd estimate, at least 18' which includes the stack above the roof. The portion of the stack above the roof is about 4', high enough that there hasn't been a problem with down draft from wind blowing over the pitched roof.
Are there any other issues with respect to buring a wood stove so's to produce the least amount of smoke - other than burning good dry seasoned wood?
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Are there any other issues with respect to buring a wood stove so's to produce the least amount of smoke?...
do you have a damper in the stove (exhaust) pipe? - - fire maintainance consists of a balancing act to achieve good combustion -
normal operation for my shop stove is draft and damper wide open during the firebuilding portion - after the burn is well established, closing the draft near completely (stove is not 'air tight') and closing the damper to the point where the stove tries to smoke, then open it a bit...
adjustments necessary depending on the moisture content of the firewood...hot fire = less smoke
would another section of pipe on your chimney get the exhaust up and out of the turbulant air flowing around/over your and others nearby buildings? - sounds like your neighbor is down wind and your exhaust is getting roiled into turbulant air between the buildings...
"there's enough for everyone"
Thanks for the reply, David.A large part of the problem is that we're located in a valley in the foothills of the cascades. My shop is, as you guessed, downwind of the neighbors as well as being down hill. Add to that lots of tall evergreen trees and you've got a situation where, when the breeze comes up from the lowland the smoke practically all drifts right towards the neighbor's house. Unfortunately it would take about 150' of stack to get it far enough up into the air flow to better dissapate the smoke.I suspect my only option will be to burn the stove with the door open to get better combustion. I've tried choking the damper down to almost closed along with throttling down the intake air (this stove is air tight ... to a degree) but haven't arrived at a combination of adjustments that seem to resolve the problem. Better wood selection for burning will be a priority as well.Thanks again............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, it depends on the stove as well. Some of the new super efficient wood stoves (esp w/ catalytic) burn fairly clean. As long as you have a good draft, the neighbors wouldn't be bothered by a clean burning wood stove. And you can set them up with a air intake (supply air), so it draws its own air from outside, burns, and then vents out. Without drawing air from the room it sits in.
But then again, you might not want to dump that kinda $$ on a workshop stove.jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
John -Thanks for the reply.This is an older (around 10+ years old) Fisher air tight. I had to replace the door gasket but otherwise it's in good shape (bought it used). The stove is fairly large and holds quite a bit of fuel but from your answer, and the others, I realize I'm not burning it nearly hot enough.One problem with the installation was the fact I have a new standing seam metal roof on the shop. I asked the roofing contractor to cut the hole and install the through roof portion of the pipe since I didn't want to be cutting holes in his new roof nor did I want a third party to mess with it. Warranty stuff, ya know. Come to find out the guy didn't have a clue with respect to clearances and such. He put a 7"dia single wall stove pipe through the roof with only about 1/4" clearance between the pipe and the OSB roof sheathing! Problem is, any bigger diameter hole would have required a hole bigger than the distance between the ribs of the roofing to get proper clearance.So I opted to have a heating company come out and install an insulated 7" section of stainless steel stove pipe where it penetrates the roof. They managed to hack out some of the OSB to the point where there's now at least a min. of 1" clearance around the insulated pipe.I have stack thermometers one located just above the stove and one near the roof penetration on the single wall pipe before it transitions to the insulated section. I try to keep the stack temperature at the outlet of the stove well into the "burn zone" as indicated on the stack thermometers. At this rate the stack temp at the upper portion of the pipe rarely gets very far into this burn zone area. With my lack of expertise on care and feeding of wood stoves, I suspect it would be best to try to get the upper stack temp higher(?) without risking over firing the stove.I do find that if I burn the stove with the doors open there's lots less smoke generated. So obviously with it choked down, it's .... chocked down.I'll let it breath better from now on.Thanks again for the reply............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dear Dennis,On a rather small sove, slow-burning is not that feasible. Slow burning is to be started after the fire is going rather well. On a small one, that pretty much takes care of what one starts with. Also the load one puts in reduces the outflow capacity both by reducing the inside volume.You probably need to raise the level of what you call 'slow-burning'.Also, if the output pipe is smaller than recommended, or oval shaped, the outflow is not as good.Most of our shops's wood scraps are not that suitable for slow-buning, anyway. You can get 'slow-burning' by keep adding smaller chunks of feed on a continuous basis, rather than adding one large load and wanting to forget about it.Good luck.-mbl-
mbl -Thanks for the words of wisdom. See my reply to John with respect to "burning issues" and installation situation. This is a fairly large old Fisher air tight but as I admitted to John, I don't think I'm burning it anywhere near hot enough............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
On of you problems is that the pipe size "might" be too small for that height of pipe. It depends on the make of the stove. Bends in the pipe also make a difference. Another thing is that the height of the pipe above the roof line must be on a 10'+ 2' rule, meaning the pipe must be 2' higher than the closet part of the roof that is 10' away. In other words, on a 6/12 pitch the pipe must be 5' high plus an additional 2', for a total of 7'. The pipe must also be support after the first 5' above the roof line. This is the same for pellet stoves. Another thing is that many stoves are rated on burning at the maximum, not the minimum. Also, the stove may not be getting enough oxygen. Is it gettting the intake air from outside or from the inside of your shop?
Dennis, I didn't read through all the replies before I wrote mine above. Didn't see your posts. You might try mixing in some good pressed logs (smaller pieces, not the whole log) to keep things burning hot. Nick brings 'em back for me from E. WA. at 50 cents each. By "good" I mean well-pressed, but not overly so. These are 3-lb logs I think. My firewood isn't as dry this year as last year's was, and the pressed log chunks help. Heh, we had 20 of 'em in the back of the Blazer when we were up there!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 2/17/2005 1:25 am ET by forestgirl
Ok what is a "pressed log"? I dont think we get that sorta firewood out here. We suffer with the old reliable, oak, maple and beech........some birch.Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
John,
Ok what is a "pressed log"?
When we had a stove in the house, before company came over the wife would give the contents of the woodbox a quick once over with a steam iron. It kept the creases in the bark nice and sharp!
Cheers,
Ray
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh gotta try that
Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Ohhhhh, isn't he just too clever?! ROFL! (I don't even iron my clothes if I can avoid it)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Ok what is a "pressed log"? I dont think we get that sorta firewood out here. We suffer with the old reliable, oak, maple and beech........some birch.
I suspect he is referring to those particleboard looking logs (pb being a 'pressed' product). You buy them ONE at a time...wrapped in plastic or paper. I think some of them have chemicals added to help clean the flue, while others just burn and give off heat.<!----><!---->
I have no idea if they are better/worse than regular firewood, but I'd just about guarantee they cost more.<!---->
Edit: oooh, three pack
View Image
View ImageView ImagePres-To-Log, 3 Pack, Fire Log With Fire Starter, Fire Logs Are 100% All Natural Wood Easy Lighting, Long Burning, Clean Burning, Burns Hotter Than Regular Cord Wood, No Wood Or Petroleum, Fuel Burns Longer, Colorful Flames In Less Than 5 Minutes, Shrink Wrapped
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
Edited 2/17/2005 9:40 am ET by JohnT8
John, they are pressed, but there is no binder as in particle board. The fancy ones have stuff that make them burn In Living Color for those using the fireplace for a romantic evening <g>. The ones sold in boxes in the stores tend to be a bit more expensive and sometimes not as heavy or well-pressed. We buy ours in bulk. I just use them to augment the firewood.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
a wood stove using a duraFlame log??............. now that is expensive!Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Actualy this should to ALL Just can't figure how to change it, so your elected
These new fangled "pressed logs" are are a version of a giant pellet. They are made of groung up wood with no fillers, glues or waxes in them. Just a huge chunk of extruded particle board. And, they burn clean...
I have a pellet stove in my shop and I have tried using 3 different brands of pellets. Manke, Lignetics, and Bear Mountain. The Bear Mountain pellets burn much better than the other two. Lignetics might be second(barely), but they run $1.00 a bag more than the Manke and Bear Mountain. Bear Mountain are not local so I stuck with Manke at around $2.89 a 40lb bag. Buy a pallet of 50 and the local lumber company delivers for free.
I apologize in advance if this has been covered already. I've perused all the posts but haven't seen this specific question covered, I may be wrong. I'm new to woodworking and recently have been working on converting my garage into a woodshop. I live in upstate NY and it tends to get quite cold down there this time of year. There is currently no heat in my garage. My main concern is that I also don't have a dust control system in there now. When I'm down there working, I wear a dust mask when I'm doing anything that creates a lot of dust and come upstairs to wait for the dust to settle prior to going back down to continue working. I have considered installing a small wood stove over the summer for use next year. Is this a REALLY bad idea (even if I am careful about being cleanly with the sawdust and have a properly working stove) without dust control. Also, and I hate to change the thread, any advice on inexensive dust control would be appreciated.
Thanks, Drew
One of the biggest problems With this thread, there are too many opinions and circumstances is chosing the right type of heating device. The amount/type of insulation also makes a difference. My walls are R19 with R38 in the ceiling
In my situation I have chosen to go with a pellet stove to heat my shop. I have neck, back and shoulder problems so hauling, spliting, stacking cords of lumber is just not feasible for me. We also don't have natural gas where I live so that is out of the question even though it would probably have been my first choice. Propane doesn't scare me and I considered it for heating, but then someone GAVE me my pellet stove and it only cost $100 to clean it up and another $400 for the pipe. My pellet stove will run off a thermostat, but it has to lit manually and takes a hour or more before it stats to raise the temperature. Then again, I have a large shop with 10 1/2' ceilings. Using electricity was never really a consideration because of the cost of resistant heat and I don't want to consider a heat pump because of the weather and salt air on the Wash Coast. I would never consider any type of heating system that is not a "sealed type" devise, as in a air tight stove. I am probably more concerned about solvents in the air causing combustion than saw dust, but I still dont want to take the chance. I have a friend who had a sop in SantaCruz, Ca that used a large Ben Franklin stove to heat his shop and never had a problem. He even sprayed lacquer in his shop and also heated up his lacquer by setting it on top of the stove.
My set up works for me, but doesn't work for everyone. In your case, I would be VERY careful considering you are doing your woodworking in a basement below your home. At that point, I might consider radiant heat in the walls to heat. A draw back is the delay in getting your shop up to temperature within a reasonable time and not waste enerergy($$$) when it's not needed. Exhausting your carbon monoxide should also be taken into consideration too.
When I lived in Southern Cal, heating really wasn't too much of an issue, But I always wished for air conditioning when It got over 90* and even more so when it rose above 100*. I'd take the mild/wet cold weather over the hot summer anyday.
Looks like the comedians beat me to the punch, LOL. So, now you know. There are several brands and knock-offs. I've found Del Logs to be junk. Prestologs too expensive. Nick buys 'em at an Ace Hardware in the agricultural side of this state, close to where he works.
Back in the 1970's they were all the rage. This was after someone came up with the bright idea of making a "newspaper roller" for us to make "logs" out of. Boy, was that a bust. There was even a slicer to cut the pressed logs with, never worked well. Haven't seen one in ages. I just take a hatchet to 'em. One side is softer than the other. Need any more technical info? <g>forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
>> ... burning a wood stove so's to produce the least amount of smoke ...If you're willing to invest some capital, you can install a high mass masonry stove (Finnish stove, Russian stove). These are fired once or twice a day and burn wide open. Basically you give them enough air that everything in the wood that can be burned gets burned. If properly constructed and maintained, they burn very clean, so much so they many jurisdictions exempt them from no burn days. Many users report very little ash, very low particulate emissions, and no cresosote.The heat from the fast, hot fire is captured in the large masonry mass and re-radiated to the room throughout the day. So during most of the day there is no fire risk because there is no fire.These stoves have been discussed here a number of times. Searches for asonry stove and Russian stove should both find messages of interest.The downside is that it takes a fair chunk of money and/or time and/or effort to build one.
Thanks for the idea, Unc, but unfortunately that's not in the cards this time around. I think I've discovered from the feedback here that 1) I'm not burning the stove hot enough and 2) I need to increase the stack ht. above the roof. Watching it burn I can see that the air turbulence over the roof is at least partially responsible for keeping the smoke from rising and dissipating.I'm familiar with the high mass stoves. I would have liked to have installed one in the house, too, but that wasn't to be, either............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
In all the years I've used wood fire as supplemental heat, I've never had a problem. Common sense (regarding volatile vapors) and an airtight stove certainly help. Moisture levels, or lack of them, in your shop as a result of the wood stove might be an issue, but that's entirely dependent on YOUR shop. I keep a kettle filled with water atop my stove. A friend keeps a large open pan of water on his.
Cut-offs really only serve to "get the ball rolling" so as mentioned, invest in some dry cordwood. Hardwood pallets burn nicely, too. The upside of pallets is that occasionally - rarely - you can pull something nice from them. (I pulled an extraordinarily figured chunk of Maple from one.)
I will say, there are few things more satisfying than busting up a mistake and jamming through the wood stove door...
I have a wood stove in my admittedly draft-prone shop. I don't worry about fumes or sawdust, because I certainly don't let either get anywhere close to the level of being a problem with fire. (My stove would not be considered "air tight").
Certainly, you have to be careful and conscious of the fact that there's a hot stove there. Besides not spraying aerosols right next to it or letting sawdust waft around on the surface, I located all of the highly flammable cans on the other side of the shop in the lower part of a cabinet. Just to give the firefighters a bit of an edge. The fire station is about 300 yards from our house.
What I see, more often than not, is people not taking care to keep their fires hot so as to lessen the amount of creosote build-up in their chimmneys. A mistake, methinks.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Tool, I just received the latest catalogue From Lee Vally. They have a terrific radient heater,(Electric) that hangs from overhead and warms a shop area as large a area as 14' x 14',andeven can be fitted with a halide lamp if needed. Costs 46 bux. Very cheap on electric too.
item # 27k08.30 Page 28
I'm not sure if it'll hot up your coffee, but, it'll Warm the 'cockles of your heart'.
Ed.
Yeah, I saw that one. I'm wondering if it's safe to use around solvents, sawdust, etc. I don't think it said much about that. Has anyone here used one of those?
- Toolfreak
I just got rid of my nice old woodburner and replaced with an electric heater with fan. I loved my woodburner but here in Minnesota it gets a little cool once in a while and I wasn't able to keep my glues in the shop because they would freeze and I didn't want to run out in the middle of the night to feed the stove to keep temps above freezing......so, I got rid of it. Nice heat though and a good place to get rid of scraps. Didn't know if I should do propane or go electric......but prices around here are getting pretty close to being the same..........
J.M.
I have a $150 boxwood heater with a $400 chimney and roof penetration. We cut about 3 cords of wood each year and about 1 cord goes to the shop (garage). But, we live on six acres with historic tree rows on the outside, several acres of orchard, and a eucalyptus wall on the north to block the north wind. We get all of our wood from this property and have for years. Is it cheap? In dollars, sort of. Chainsaws and rebuilds aren't cheap and there's a lot of capital in the splitter etc.
But the biggest cost is in work. Felling trees and cutting up windfall in the late spring, splitting and storing it in the fall, and hauling it in the winter. But, given $150 per barrel oil predicted in five years and gas prices to match, wood'll pay off more and more each year.
If you have to buy wood or drive to a national forest and haul it miles back to your shop, go with an explosion proof outside vented gas forced hot air unit. Also, do this if you spray flammables a lot.
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