Replies

1. 
   davamoore | Oct 22, 2002 04:41pm | #1

   Here's a link that lists dozens of additional links regarding safety, sizing, placement, installation and use of wood stoves:

   http://hearth.com/what/specific.html

   I spent a certain amount of time looking at the articles before I installed my new woodstove in my workshop, two weeks ago.  So far, so good.  A few thoughts, based on a short period of time with the new stove -- plus, I grew up with wood heat (I think forest girl heats with a wood stove, too):

   -- I suppose this counts as the "duh" factor, but be sure to keep the stove well away from any flammable materials -- of which there are many in a workshop.  This not only means setting the stove away from wooden walls and/or floors (can you move the existing stove?), or putting up floor and wall barriers (available at "big box" hardware stores), but also making sure you don't accidentally drop stuff near or on the stove.  I know it sounds silly, but I put down a strip of bright yellow tape on the floor,  18" all around the stove, as a reminder that this is a "no entry" zone.

   -- Buy a fire extinguisher, and keep it in your shop.

   -- It takes a while to get the shop warm in the morning, so you'll want to plan ahead.

   -- Be sure to use well-seasoned, hardwood (if possible) wood in your stove -- it burns cleaner than pitchy, wet woods and is less likely to build up creosote in your chimney (and cause a chimney fire).  Check the chimney periodically, and either buy a chimney brush on a snake, or find a good chimney sweep.

   -- Related to the above point, my new woodstove is very efficient, burning hot and slow.  I've found that I create more burnable cutoffs each day than I actually manage to throw in the stove (completely eliminating one of my goals, which was to clear my workshop of all the scrap wood!).  This wood is very, very dry and burns incredibly clean (as wood goes)... once the fire gets hot, I can't even see smoke coming out of the chimney, just heat waves.

   -- I imagine that it's not a good idea to do finishing with solvent-based finishes, in the woodshop with the fire burning in the stove.  This is one drawback of woodstoves... now that the cold weather is upon us, I'm back to finishing in the mudroom (much to the displeasure of my partner).

   All of this you probably already know... like I said at the beginning, check the hearth.com website for good, detailed articles.

   David

   Hmmm... the garden or the workshop today?
1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 22, 2002 07:55pm | #6

   David, since you seem to have your woodburning technique down pat, maybe you can help me out.  I realized the other day I haven't a clue exactly how to regulate my stove.  You say you get yours to burn "hot and slow" -- mine burns hot if I load it up enough, but not necessarily slow.  Is it simply a matter of cutting the air back?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   davamoore | Oct 22, 2002 08:00pm | #7

   Is it simply a matter of cutting the air back?

   Yup... once the fire gets going and you have a good set of glowing coals, all you have to do is play with the damper until the flames themselves die down to a minimally sustainable burn.  It usually takes about an hour to get to that point.  I know nothing about the chemical reaction that's going on during such combustion, but for some reason the wood seems to burn both hotter and slower -- with much less, almost no, visible smoke.

   David

   By the way, I'm typing this note in the waiting room at my car dealer's service area, while my oil gets changed and tires rotated.  Internet access at the service shop -- how cool is that?

   Hmmm... the garden or the workshop today?

   Edited 10/22/2002 1:04:43 PM ET by davamoore

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 22, 2002 08:33pm | #8

   Tooo funny -- that's a hip repair place.  If I didn't crave tools so much, I'd get a laptop, I wish I wish, but can't have both, more's the pity.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   UncleDunc | Oct 22, 2002 08:57pm | #9

   Another alternative is a masonry (Russian, Finnish) stove, with a long smoke path and very high thermal mass. They are only fired once or twice a day, with a single fire box full of wood. The damper is wide open, so the wood burns hot and fast and the fire is out in an hour or so. As the flue gasses pass through the convoluted smoke path, most of the heat is transferred to the maonry, and slowly radiated to the room. The temperature at the top of the chimney is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 degrees.

   The advantages are very clean burning, high efficiency, easy to implement external air / sealed combustion, less effort hauling wood and tending the fire, very low ash and creosote production, and reduced clearance requirements and risk of burns, since the outside of the stove (except at the loading door) never gets very hot and the heat transfer rate from brick to skin is not very high.

   The disadvantages are high initial cost and slow startup from a cold stove. The high cost is mostly for labor rather than materials, since bricklayers are expensive.

   I don't own one of these, but if I ever build a house, I plan to include one. I really like the idea of being able to get up in the morning and fire the stove and by the time I'm ready to go to work, the fire is out and I can close the damper to keep the warm air in, the house is warm and will stay warm till I get home in the evening. Fire the stove again at suppertime, and by bedtime the firebox is cool enough that I can put the next morning's wood in before I go to bed. In a woodshop, you might not even need sealed combustion. Just go out and fire the stove before breakfast when all the dust has settled down, and when it's time to start making more, the fire is out.

   I've seen pictures of stoves where the smoke goes through a built in bench, making a very cozy place to sit. On some of the Russian models it's a bed size platform rather than a bench. There's a Korean variant where the smoke goes under the floor and heats half a room.

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 22, 2002 09:11pm | #10

   I saw one of these at the Home Show in Seattle a number of years ago.  They are great.  Especially in a home with open spaces up high, 2-stories with open railing around parts of the upper story, that kind of thing.  Kinda big, maybe, for a shop though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   booch | Oct 23, 2002 09:34pm | #15

   I agree the russian or finnish version of fireplaces are beautiful and efficient but I can't come up with the scratch. I was at 4000 to 8000 to 12000 bucks for the stuff before shipping, my assembly and a chimney.

   It may be worth it but I may never know.

3. 
   UncleDunc | Oct 24, 2002 09:38am | #17

   That sounds like Tempcast or one of the the outfits that imports cast refractory components made out of some special pumice. I think there's one that imports from Iceland and one from Denmark. I haven't priced it out myself, but I think you can do a lot better than that if you can do some research, find a plan you like, and build the thing from brick. The Brick Industry Association web site http://www.bia.org has a Technical Note (I forget which number) that has several different plans. Fine Homebuilding has done quite a few articles in masonry stoves, as far back as #7. I don't think any of them had dimensioned plans, but if you can count bricks, you can get a pretty good idea from the photos. I've seen plans and construction advice on several other web sites too. You'd probably want to buy new firebrick, but assuming it doesn't rain much inside your shop :), you could use about any funky old used brick you could lay your hands on for the exterior.

4. 
   booch | Oct 24, 2002 07:32pm | #18

   Nice link. I'm printing the 800 pages (ha) as you read this. I've always contended that masonry is one of the few building subjects that has gotten minimal publication. Possibly their fingerprints are worn off by the mortar and the thought of holding a pen or typing is not possible.

   The bookstores are littered with ways to build retaining walls & backyard barbecues. Damn little on the brick and mortar of construction. Libraries are full of the same and the occasional trade school book that is less imformative than the guy selling mortar by the bag at the brickyard.

   Then again it could be a secret. Without being a Mason (Knights of Templar) you may not be able to know the tricks of the trade or the secret handshake.

   Ive bought a couple of books on the (Bennedict Arnold contemporary) Count Rumford style fireplace. That is the leading contender in my project.

   All the Rais & whomever versions are more soapstone constructions with baffled interiors to increase the smoke path and wring out more heat.

5. 
   booch | Oct 25, 2002 12:29am | #19

   I read thru about a third of the Brick info on fireplaces at lunch. Fascinating and thorough. Their axe to grind is the value of brick. I'm wit dat! however it would be nice to get the scoop on using fieldstone or natural rock for venier finishing of the fireplace. I've already started with a cement block foundation and that probably should have a cover at least until it reaches the first floor.

   I may find rock or stone covering of the fireplace to be too messy (read time consuming and ugly for an amature) but I'd appreciate any info on how to do it. Got a lead? There probably isn't a natural rock institute.

2. 
   tablesaw635 | Oct 22, 2002 04:59pm | #2

   My first shop had a woodstove as its sole means of heat, and my current shop (been here 3 years) has a gas furnace.  I may be unusual in this regard, but not a day goes by when I don't gripe about not having a woodstove anymore.  This is an especially "hot" issue today because the furnace repair guys were just here to report that the furnace needs another $800 before it will work this year.  And once it is fixed, there's no guarantee that something else won't break (although it is only a 9 year old furnace).  Best case scenario, I'm out some dough for the repairs, and I'll still have gas bills to pay every month.  Maybe I'm just a grew-up-heating-with-wood-country-boy at heart, but the idea of paying very much for heat simply astonishes me.   There's plenty of other things I don't mind shelling out for, but heat?  Why can't I just burn something?

   Anyway, I tend to romanticize heating with wood for the following reasons:

   1) It is cheap.  A few full cords of fire wood used to keep us warm all winter.

   2) You get to burn your scrap wood instead of getting a dumpster to load it into.  Because I am not one of these guys who hoards every unusual or interesting piece of scrap wood, I generate a lot of waste that I'd rather burn up than throw away.

   3) It is an inherently simpler system- there are less parts that can break down, and if something does go wrong, it is pretty obvious what it is.  My furnace guys were here for 2 hours ($180) before they even figured out which electrical components were not working. 

   4) I enjoy the literal connection to my heat source-- light a match, start a fire, get warm.  For me, there is something ritualistic and satisfying about this.  Turning a plastic dial on a wall, despite its effectiveness, is not a dramatic or interesting process for me.  Then again, not everybody is looking to make a big deal out of this (which leads me to my list of disadvantages):

   1) The fire needs to be stoked frequently, so if you go away, be ready to come back to a cold shop.

   2) Inconsistent temperatures & humidity levels can wreak havoc with woodworking projects; depends on what you're doing.

   3) Fire hazards.  Make sure everything is installed/checked by someone who knows what they're doing.

   Maybe my ultimate shop would have a gas furnace AND a woodstove?  Nah, I'd just go for the stove.  It has some definite drawbacks, but for me they are reasonable trade-offs.  Lots of people (most?) won't feel this way, though.  I'll be curious to see what other folks mention. 

   I'm in Wisconsin, by the way, so winters are pretty long & cold, similar to Mass.  

   Chris Gleason

   Gleason Tableworks

   http://www.interestingfurniture.com

1. 
   LeeEschen | Oct 23, 2002 01:22am | #13

   Chris wrote: My furnace guys were here for 2 hours ($180) before they even figured out which electrical components were not working.

   Chris, I'd find new furnace guys, if had an experience like that.

   --

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

   On the Redwood Highway

3. 
   forestgirl | Oct 22, 2002 07:45pm | #3

   Dave said it all.  I have only a couple things to add.  I'd suggest getting one of those woodstove thermometers -- they stick magnetically onto the chimney and show you the range for "best burn" and "too cold - creosote" and "too hot".  (Mine got way into the "too hot" range once, eek!).  Anyway, it helps me keep the temp up where there's not too much creosote being laid down.

   I also have a torpedo-style propane burner (my pre-woodstove form of heat).  If it's real cold and I want to jump-start the temp rise, I fire that up while I'm building the fire in the stove. 

   I think the "barriers" of which Dave speaks are called "cement board".  We have a panel of that in back of the stove on the wall, stands out about 1/2" or so from the wall with spacer.

   What size pipe does your stove take?  If it's the smaller size (6" I think) you could eventually convert to a pellet stove, which is much less hassle and more efficient.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/22/2002 12:47:41 PM ET by forest_girl

1. 
   davamoore | Oct 22, 2002 07:52pm | #5

   Good points, Jamie (and Chris, too... I raise both hands in support of the "atmosphere" that a wood fire brings... even if it's not always particularly good for the actual atmosphere).

   I like the idea of a woodstove thermometer, Jamie.  I'd never heard of one before; where can I get hold of one?

   Nice idea about the jumpstart, too.  I have a couple of electric space heaters (whose ability to suck energy was the primary driver behind installing the woodstove).  Maybe I'll set one near me, for the first hour or two, just to keep me going until the whole shop warms up.

   DavidHmmm... the garden or the workshop today?

4. 
   ToolDoc | Oct 22, 2002 07:49pm | #4

   I have a coal/wood burner in my shop for over 20 yrs and have never had a problem.. if you take the time and use it right,check it & chimmney every burning season, you will be fine.. guess if everyone would just use common sense with them there would be no problems. most problems stem from neglect or inproper instalations.. Guess I must be doing something right cause I havent burnt down the shop or blown myself up yet..and I dont want to do that cause Jamie,Don,Dennis & SARGE would miss me  <G>....

           Take Care....        ToolDoc

5. 
   silver77 | Oct 22, 2002 09:18pm | #11

   First thing I would do is call my insurance company and ask what their requirements are for a woodstove in a woodworking shop.

   silver

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 22, 2002 10:46pm | #12

   Now, there's a can of worms!  Tremors-type worms, no less.  Not disagreeing with you though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

6. 
   Langsdal1 | Oct 23, 2002 05:13am | #14

   As a new participant in this forum, I'd like to thank you all. It's great to get this response and watch you all bounce off one another with interest and information. David, I've checked hearth.com...lots to consider. Thank you. Chris, good advice, and Jamie, I have cement board, I'll get a thermometer, and the pipe is 6 inches. To Tooldoc and Silver, I plan to use common sense and contact the insurance co. The wood for the stove is over a year old. and I hope to be warm and busy by next week. Now, what's a table saw?

7. 
   JeffKurtz | Oct 24, 2002 12:26am | #16

   Up in this neck of the woods fire wood is abundant and inexpensive, making it a good and popular fuel.  Every winter, however, we have a rash of fires, nearly all from the same cause: the chimney.

   Folks who have lived in wood heated houses all their lives, through neglect or forgetfulness, fail to keep that chimney clean and the results are disastrous.

   Another thing to bear in mind is that creosote build-up in the chimney is easily prevented if one burns only DRY wood - I mean wood that has seasoned at least three years.  (A friend of mine lives in a 100+ year old house heated exclusively with wood ever since his folks moved there in 1919.  They've never had the chimney cleaned and never had a chimney fire.  All the wood he burns has been sitting in the old stable at least five years.)

   BTW, I knew of two bachelor woodsmen (brothers) who heated their cabin with a cast iron box stove.  Not being the most ambitious pair, they got the bright idea of cutting their wood double length.  They placed a crate in front of the open stove door to hold up one end of the log, while the other burned in the fire box.  (Stay with me here, this isn't BS) When one end burned off, they just slid the other forward into the fire.

   It worked pretty well until they both fell asleep one night and.... Suffice it to say they were lucky to get out alive.

   Jeff