Are there any woodcraft franchisees out here on Knots?
If so, what’s been your experience?
What about Woodcraft shoppers? Do you like the stores? Do you go there often?
I’m just thinking about future business opportunities so I’m investigating…
Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a Micrometer,
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Replies
Woodcraft shopper, San Antonio, TX, and here in Albuquerque.
I lived in S.A. for a couple of years and bought in that store maybe 4 - 5 times; no problems, but nothing to get excited about, either. The store merchandise seemed to be oriented more toward the craft show woodworker end of the scale.
The store here in Albuquerque: in a word, superb! Friendly, knowledgeable, helpful store personnel; good selection of tools, supplies, and books; good offerings for classes. The store personnel -- including the owner -- will, if WC doesn't carry an item, refer you to the competition. They'll recommend items, but don't push the most expensive, and often will tell/show how to do something less expensively. All in all, they go out of their way to make you feel welcome and to help you get what you need to complete your project. Great place to shop and to just hang out for a couple of minutes jaw-jacking about wood!
I go there at least once a month, most of the time, 3 - 4 times a month. My wife refers to it as my "toy store"..... :-)
Edited 1/9/2006 12:02 am ET by pzgren
I buy from WoodCraft, but not all that often. The reason: most everything they carry can be found elsewhere at significantly lower prices. Moreover, if I'm buying a name tool like Veritas or Lie-Nielsen (which WC carries), I tend to go to the source even if the price is the same.
Dear Samson
Can you please tell me the names of the companies you use that are cheaper then Woodcraft
regards Charnwood
I can be more specific if you have a particular product in mind, but here goes:
http://www.leevalley.com
http://www.amazon.com (especially for power tools - cheaper plus free shipping and often discounts)
http://www.shellac.net/ShellacPricing.html (don't know if you use shellac)
http://www.librawood.com/
http://www.woodpeck.com/
Can't guarantee every price is less, but my experience is usually.
If you live in a metro area there ARE cabinet making supply houses near you. Most will sell to the public. The only real problem for the average hobby woodworker is that you have to know EXACTLY what you need. The employees know nothing about the product. They are basicly just whare house workers. And, if you buy from places like Wood Craft or Rockler you are used to your hinges and slides coming in nice repackaged units complete with all the hardware and fittings. However at a supply house you will have to know exactly which adapter plate, which hange arm and what size and combination of screws you need. When you are ordering items like Blum Tandem drawer slides it gets very complitated, because there are so many options and all the componets are sold seperately. However if you can figure out the system and open an account you will save tremendously over any of the sources listed above. I pay about 60% of the retail price at Wood Craft on most hardware. Some items, like pocket screws, are 10% the price. I think that I pay 8$ for a box of 1000 pocket screws. I believe Rockler sells a handfull for $5.
As far as service at Wood Craft or Rockler, I think it depends on the customers experience level. I dread asking them for something. If I'm lucky they won't know what I am talking about. Generally they attempt to convince me that there is another product or method that is better. I love a discusion on different aproaches to our craft but these guys are more interested in one-up-man-ship. There are certaintly good people working at these places but I tend to remember bad ones.
Mike
Mudman,
If I were looking for a cabinet supply place, where in the yellow pages or on the internet would I look?
Thanks,
Alan - planesaw
Don't waste your time. Call or visit a cabinet shop and ask them. Explain that you are wanting to locate suppliers of the items you need (screws, hinges, wood, etc) and where they get services (saw sharpening, etc).
You will get much more complete information and possibly where NOT to go and why.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Tree house has a good idea. Unfortunately calling shops out of the blue is not likely to give you good results. I know that the supplier I use is not in the Yellow Pages. It took me a couple of years to hear about them. In Dallas/ Fort Worth Louis and Company is a major supplier (that is who I use). THey have other lacations as well.
THere are several profesional organizations for these businesses. I am in a hurry and type slow so I will give the acronyms and you can search the net to see if they have a member list. AWFS. CIDA. WMIA. NBMDA.
It is easier to find lumber yards (they are in the yellow pages) then ask them who they recomend. Try to find a yard that caters to cabinet shops.
Mike
I was a WC in Sterling Heights, MI yesterday. I gave the owner a $5 coupon that Woodcraft sent me. He asked if I mailed in a survey and was wondering if I was happy with the store.
I said yes, but I wasn't 4yrs ago. He wasn't the owner at that time. He told me if I ever have problems to let him know. I told the owner that because of the bad experience 4yrs ago, I spent over $10,000 on all the big machines some where else. All the employee are really friendly. I think people need to understand the personalities of alot of woodworkers. Most a quiet people, but once they open up they'll talk about woodworking forever.
Most of the employees, according to their bios on their website have been involved in woodworking. Some are more knowledgable in one paticular area than others, because it's their passion. The employees are quick to refer you to the employee that knows more on the certain subject.
They have a good selection of classes that are available to kids or adults. My 13y/o son took a couple of turning classes before Christmas and now he has a mini lathe.
I don't think the prices are that bad. LN is the same price any where you buy, so why not support your local store vs. LN direct. That's how a store can grow and get better. If I have a tool on my wish list I will wait for a coupon to purchase it, that only makes sense.
Next time your in your local store and are wondering about prices, asked the owner about his cost for all the 5 fingers discounts. That's something mailorder doesn't have to worry about. Or the next time you need something demonstrated asked the guy on the phone to demonstrate it for you. Or just do what most people do, go to the store, get the demo and all the advice. Then go home and order on the internet to save $5.
By the way I don't work at Woodcraft if you are wondering but I have worked retail before and know how tough it is.
I agree with you. I'll pinch a penny until it screams, but if I get help at a local store, I'll buy there. OTOH I got my table saw online because I didn't need any local assistance.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I've learned a bit about big powertools in my research.The margin is quite slim - maybe 15% (as compared to Sandpaper which might be 75% or 100%)And in states where there is sales tax, it's tough for brick and mortar to compete on price with the online shopper (especially when the online stores throw in shipping). Many just go into the store to see the hardware then buy it on-line...Measure it with a Micrometer,
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
I can't see tying up so much floor space, setup time and inventory dollars into products that yield only 15 points, unless I was able to add accessory packages to the price. WoodCraft just had an online coupon for 25% off and didn't exclude anything, so I think the 15 point margin may be a bit off. I would hope the people who weigh buying it online vs locally see some value in having it set up for them. I think we all know someone who can make things from wood but can't set up a machine to save their life.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Woodcraft shopper here,
Generally, when I make a tool purchase, I like to hold the tool in my hand to see how it feels, and to assess the quality. I've been stung in the past by tool porn pix in clossy catalogs, seducing me into ordering. When when I got the tools I was dissappointed. I've got a box full of fancy, useless French saws that I keep to remind me. That lesson cost $100.00. Money well spent.
So I go in from time to time maybe once a month and browse. I bet I've spent $3000.00 there in the past few years. The people are nice and pretty knowledgeable and all in all it's a good experience.
Good luck with the decision, it's a pretty steep investment on your part, right?
David C.
Wish they had more hardware; knobs, hinges, pulls, etc.
I wouldn't try to compete with Lee Valley on knobs, pulls, etc. OTOH, if I was in competition, I wouldn't tell people about them, either. I bought my door handles from L-V and they were about $2.00 each. HD has them at $29.97 and Lowes is at $17.99. Same thing. Woodcraft has some deals, but like anything, it's a matter of knowing what you need and how much others charge for the same thing. It seems that the store in the Milw area is staffed by family and friends of the owner. I don't get a lot of quick, in-depth and accurate answers to my questions when I'm there, unlike the forums and threads here. They apparently don't have a lot of retail experience either, which is clear when they unleash new people who know less about where things are, what's in stock and the prices than I do. I mentioned the problem I had using Titebond veneer glue with thin veneer and the guy gave "that's why I use the real stuff" as his tight-lipped reply. All he had to say was, "That's the reason non-water based adhesives work best in this case, because the veneer doesn't curl up". They also haven't been great about call-backs and keeping their employees. I buy from them because they have a different selection from Rockler. Both have decent sale prices on certain things, but regular prices aren't great. I can get better answers and info online in a lot of cases.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Mark,
I am a shopper and like Woodcraft more because it is local than the merchandise, although that is good. I absolutely will not buy online for large tools as I have had too many returns of tools, e.g., planers ,and being able to return it to Woodcraft and get another immediately has been a real benefit. I am willing to forgo the $15 savings not to have to pack it and wait for a return.
If I were considering a franchise, one of my questions would be ,very specifically, the turnover among franchisees. Our local store was started up by an individual who later sold it and I am not sure how well the new owners are doing. Big turnover in employees and most are not very knowledgeable. My guess is retaining good help that know what they are talking about is a major issue. I asked the start up owner one day after he had sold why and he wasn't very specific but he wasn't enthusiastic either.
Hi Mark,
I also have investigated franchises a bit. I 53, winding down another successful business, and looking for something new to do. I always seem to come back to a woodworking retail business. The woodcraft store here is pretty typical. The prices are too high, but the staff is pretty good, and its handy to stop in and buy. I also buy lots of things from the web and have had great success with that.
Each time I visit the store, I can see lots of things that I could do what I think would be better. Even so, they do well and saturdays have a large crowd of guys just looking for something to do, and itching to spend money.
I think the only thing holding me back would be to give up nights and weekends. I have many more thoughts and ideas and would love to discuss them with you.
thanks,
Stevo
[email protected]
Where are you located and which Woodcraft is it?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Highfigh,I am in Madison and the WC store is on the west side here.Stevo
Oh, OK. I go to the one in West Allis, on the west side of Milw. Sounds like they could be owned by the same person. The one here had one of the teachers from MATC working there, but he got sick of the place. I think it could be a really good setup if they would ask people what they want and what it would take to get them to buy from that store.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I shop the Rockler store that opened here in Houston about 18 months ago. Good place to find hardware, blades, turning tools, occassional good deals on wood, router bits and accessories, clamps, measuring devices, etc.
The staff is all knowledgable, helpful and friendly.. reall woodworkers who are happy to provide lots of "how to" advice.
I'll be attending a turning class there on Jan 11th. Various classes are offered on a regular schedule and there is no charge.
I'm very glad it's here.. and I like it much better than the Woodcraft store where I used to shop before.
As a person with 20 years of corporate retail experience, it is all about you and what you are will to do.
The answer is not going to come from the shopper at woodcraft but from other franchise owners. As with any shop of this sort you will have good and bad owners. The question is what woodcraft corporate will provide and at what price.
In Cleveland we had 2 woodcraft stores. all items are priced the same, one had wood for 2x the other. and that one is no longer there. one has a great staff and is helpful the other had people who would talk to you as if you were an expert woodworker.
One has classes for kids, the other did not want to deal with kids.
So the answer to your question that you really want to know is am i going to be successful with a woodcraft franchise. the answer is how much time and effort are you going to put into your shop and what are you going to expect from your employees.
Hope that helps.
I go there about once a month. It's about 7-10 miles from work, ~20 miles from home, so I don't go more often. There's a Rockler nearby and I usually hit up both on the same trip.
I might be able to get something cheaper online, but at a B&M I can pick it up TODAY, and I don't pay shipping. No sales tax here in Oregon, either.
The Woodcraft has a good selection of quality stuff and brand merchandise; as opposed to the Rockler which has alot of "Rockler blue" branded stuff that you know they just OEM from a Chinese producer. About the only thing I definitively don't buy at Woodcraft is wood; even the Woodcraft employees recommend to people they they go to the big hardwood retailer in town.
Mark:
I have investigated the WoodCraft franchise program and other franchise programs. My 2 cents-- there are MUCH better opportunites to invest in other than franchises. I can understand your desires I think--- tie in your love of ww with an investment. When you get down to it------ALL franchises mandate you use their business system and the upfront cost can be steep. Plus, you really are NOT your own boss. You are still working for someone else.
Good luck
Thank you,
Cheatah
I think chetah has the wrong idea about a franchise. You are ABSOLUTELY your own boss. You will succeed or fail because of your own talents.
The franchisor will provide support, training, and a "system" but there's a lot more to owning and running a business and that's why even franchises fail - albeit much less frequently than independent startups.
You will be required to pay royalties for use of the system and trademarks, and possibly additional advertising dollars that they will use for national branding which, as you can see, works, because you are receiving national answers to your question.
W:
No I don't think I have the wrong idea about franchises. I understand them quite well. And yes I agree that the owner of a franchise is his or her own boss. The point I was tryng ti make is that owning franchise is dramatically diifferent than owning your own business.
Franschise owner abides by a set of business ideas set by the franchiser. This can be a blessing or a curse. Overall I consider it a curse. I would want the flexibility to implement business plans they way I see fit to grow the business. Plus, you have to kick back profits to the franchiser as well. Simply put---there are better ways to invest. And retail--is cut-throat. Margins are slim on tools.
In the end---yes I understand franshises and would not persue it myself. Others on this forum are free to waste their money as feel fit..
Take care...
Thank you,
Cheatah
Since we're talking specifically about WoodCraft, I'd like some opinions. I ordered a L-N Dovetail saw on New Year's Eve day and was told it would be ordered the following Monday, so I should see it in a week. I called last Friday and they told me that their shipment hadn't been fully received but they should know if it was in today. I just got a call that it's B/O from their distribution center and if I want, they can get one from the closest store. I doubt if I would see it before Wednesday. Now that it has been over two weeks since I ordered it and paid in full, am I unreasonable by being annoyed with this situation? I would think they would have known last week (if they had ordered it when they said they would) if it was B/O, and they could have called to let me know. Except for one time, whenever I have ordered anything, they never called when they said they would and it was like one hand didn't know what the other was doing. I picked up one special order and two weeks later, was told that it was there and I could pick it up whenever I wanted. Is it time to go somewhere else or should I have a talk with the management?OK, I just called L-N and was told that they make saws every day but can't keep up with the demand due to making about 10 different kinds. They ship to Woodcraft's DC and then the tools go to the various stores, which I assumed. I then called the local store and was told that the guy who handles special orders is gone for the day (3:00). I have to think the local stores get feedback regarding B/O items from the DC. Should I expect them to call to tell people about this?
"I'm gonna give them a piece of my mind!"
"No, don't do it! Then you won't have enough for yourself!"
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/16/2006 4:14 pm by highfigh
to answer your question about being mad the answer is yes and no. yes i would be mad that they did not have the part for you, but at least their was communication to you that it did not come in on the order. if the store saw that the item was available they placed the order, when the person went to pick the item they were sold out.
If woodcraft would let them know you would have known that they did not have the item, but the owner of the store could not have done anything different.
remember that depending where you live it could be 7-10 days from order placement to delivery.
The last thing to remember is they told you it was not there. the question is, If you would not have called them when they were unloading the order would they have called you to tell you it was not in. If the answer is yes then i do not have and issue with the store but with woodcraft buying department. if the answer is no then you have a valid point.
my $.02, and i could be all wrong. just asked the customer who asked for Paduck and Birds eye Mable table and when i delivered the table, said, since you have just been at are house for the first time you can see that it does not go with what we have.
David
http://www.darbynwoods.com
I said annoyed, not mad.I had to call after more than a week and a half and find out that it hadn't come in. I was definitely told it would be arriving a week from the day of the order. The only reason he called me today is that I had called this weekend. I don't have a problem with it being out of stock at the store, I have a problem with being given innacurate information. Companies like Woodcraft have more than one distribution center and I have to believe that it's at least partially automated. If the Woodcraft DC doesn't inform the stores that items are B/O'd, they have nobody to blame but themselves when orders are canceled due to long waits. I've been in retail over 30 years and have also seen how large scale distribution is done. My issue has to do with the retail end, where they should be contacting customers to let them know that the status of their order isn't what they expected. Also, leaving clear info for the other people working at the store is extremely important. This has never been done in any of my transactions with this store. They had one person who was really good about my first order but he left. IIRC, the store changed hands last year but if anything, it should have improved. I went there yesterday because the mailer said they were having a "Winter Clearance Sale". The store was almost empty when I got there and it took almost a half hour for anyone to say a word to me. Wasn't much of a sale, either. I guess I'll just have to buy the store, eh?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
then i agree, if you have to call than you have an issue.
I have set up 25 retail distribution centers from 60,000 to 1,000,000sf with all the bells and whisles. If you do not have a reseveration system on the order entry system. if you do not cycle count all the time you will have issues.
to the best of my knowledge woodcraft only has one dc in wv.
Retail is in the detail and in communication.
david
"Retail is in the detail and in communication."Exactly, and not just 'that' there is communication, but how it is communicated. I don't want them to tell my what they think I want to hear, I want good info up front and along the way. I think part of the problem is in how they organize the special orders. Manila file folders with one sheet for each order and all manufacturers mixed together. A lot easier if the computer can compile the order by brand, with all pertinent customer info in the same area. Doesn't need a whole page unless the person orders a lot of different items. Also, B/O's can be printed out so the customers can be called. I would like to see this store send or hand out a curvey. Nothing elaborite, just short and to the point. Participation doesn't need to be mandatory and they can ask whether someone is willing to fill it out. I worked for a mass merchandiser and we did it so we could get CSI feedback. My shop had the highest participation and CSI for 7 quarters running. It's not hard to do this.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Highfigh,
You are justified in being annoyed. The sad part of this situation is that what you are experiencing is the norm and not the exception. We have come to expect mediocre customer service and it is pleasantly surprising when a special order goes right. Any business, big or small, has to have protocol for following up on S.O. items. The larger the operation, the more obstacles(and people) to work around. I find that I have better success when I get the person's name who takes my order. I also ask this person how and when they will getting back to me with order status. I approach it as though it isn't going to go smoothly right out of the gate. Too bad I have to do this but I learned the hard way.
My problem with this kind of situation is that I have dealt with tens of thousands of customers and there are very few who wouldn't want to talk to me about anything. Obviously, you can't please everyone, but I see customers from close to 30 years ago and they act like they missed me. OTOH, it's nice to feel wanted. Not by Johnny Law, though.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You know, I see what you are saying but if you don't get someone at the store to take ownership of your order then nobody will and it gets bounced around until you get annoyed enough to start calling on it. I just cut out the agravation and get proactive from the start. I was on the retail, customer service end of things for many years and as one who did follow up on S.O. product, I can tell you there are many ways for orders to get botched even when you are following up regularly. Customers will seek you out when they know they can count on you and you do what you say you will. As a business owner that is what you want and your business will grow.
I was "the guy" in a lot of cases, too. I made a point of not letting this kind of thing fall through the cracks. I think the real issue with this particular store is retail INexperience, at all levels. A lot of people may know a subject forward and backward, but have no idea of what questions to ask a customer in order to get them what they need. I think it would also be helpful for the management to specify each salesperson's area(s) of expertise and show it to the customers. That way, not as much time is wasted in qualifying customers and sales staff "trying to be helpful" when the customer really wants detailed, accurate information about which the sales person knows very little.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I agree
I am a regular Woodcraft customer, and know the franchisee fairly well here.
I would agree with some of the other responses. The quality of the store is all in the approach the owner takes, who s/he hires and how knowledge and people friendly everyone is.
Our local WC is staffed with very competent, knowledgeable, and friendly people. Excellent classes and workshops. I shop by price for a lot of things. When I can buy something somewhere else for a lot less money I take several things into consideration. One, if I have a problem with the item, who is going to be easier to deal with. I would not order a tablesaw or bandsaw via mailorder as that would be a pain to return. Luckily I am 30 minutes from Wilke Machinery and 2 hours from Grizzly in Pennsylvania. I buy from Veritas/LV because of what they have and their fantastic customer service. Lie-Nielsen the same way. But, when WC has what I want from L-N for the same price, I buy it from WC. I can see the item before I buy it. And, if I ever needed to return a L-N, which I have not, I could take it in to my local WC.
My dad owned a retail hardware store for decades. One reason customers would come to him was that his prices were as good or better than the big discount stores, he and his employees knew what they were selling and how to use them, and would gladly refer you to another business if he did not have what you needed.
The magic is in the owner and employees. Being a franchisee means you have a lot of rules to follow per your contract, as I am sure you know. But, with it comes a lot of the homework already done.
Enjoy whatever you decide,
Alan - planesaw
The problem with today's hardware and tool stores is that they rarely have the same ethic as when your dad had his store. They wanted to be known for having what others didn't and took pride in knowing how just about everything worked. I remember going to some hardware stores with my dad and how they always had what was needed. Somehow, two of the old stores I still go to are in the same locations with some of the same people, if their age is any indication. If these people are old enough, they probably sold things to my grandfather and uncles, too. The Woodcraft in Milw has to bring people in to give a handplane demo, IIRC. They had someone working there who teaches woodworking at the technical college but he's gone. I can't imagine the looks I would get if I asked about cutting dovetails or something really complex. I still buy from them because, in some cases, they're the only game in town and as you said, you can go in and touch the items you want/need. The online coupons come in pretty handy, too. Still isn't a substitute for knowledge.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Agreed. My granddad told about my great granddad and a time a man came into buy a handsaw. GrGranddad showed him several saws. The man picked one out and was told what the price was. The man said I can get one mail order cheaper. GrGranddad told him he would sell it to him at that price.
The man said okay. GrGranddad wrapped it up and put it under the counter. The man said I want my saw. GrGranddad told him it would be ready for him in two weeks. The same amount of time it would have taken the mail order saw to arrive.
He paid the difference and took his saw with him.
Back to WC franchise here. Several of the employees teach some of the classes and workshops. Also, there are four different clubs that meet at the WC store. Woodworkers, woodturners, woodcarvers, and scroll saw folks.
Alan - planesaw
Great story!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
There are no WC stores in Canada. I just got back from a business trip to Milwaukee, and decided to drop in the store on the way to the airport. All I wanted was a LN dovetail saw. They where out of stock. The staff did not seem all that helpful. Next time I will check before diverting to the store.
I was told that there was dovetail saw on order and it should arrive last Friday. NOPE! I was there on Saturday and nobody had a clue. I would have been more help than the staff. I ordered one and when it comes in, IT'S MINE, ALL MINE! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!. Sorry, I got a little excited there. 25 % coupon and all. You don't call, you don't write, .......What were you doing in Mullarkey?"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."Edited 1/8/2006 3:45 am by highfigh
Edited 1/8/2006 3:47 am by highfigh
I work for a company that has a H.O. down town. 25% coupon! who do I have to knock off?
I went to the Woodcraft website and signed up for e-mail offers, etc. The price for the dovetail saw is higher than I would normally pay, but at 25% off, it's not quite as bad. Once it comes in, I'll be able to practice with it and if I come up with any questions, I can ask at the WoodWorking show.Did you enjoy our freeway construction?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
There is a store a few miles from my house,I driove by it for atr least 6mos. before I ever noticed it and then it looked like it was closed. There located in a half assed shoping center that has Office Depot , furniutre store that has total junk,a empty Brueners furniture store, and an huge antique co op the size of Texas that prices everything in it came out of King Tut's pyramid.I had to get some mechanical pencils from Office Depot and was 10 mins early and walked across to look in the windows, and I saw people, 3 or 4 of them. More employees than customers it seemed like, they were friendly but didn't need to be followed all over the store. Lots of carving tools, great in fact selection,all the Lie Nielson toys some hardware items, the basic stuff like, glue sandpaper, lotsa books.I dumped a hundred bucks in 10 mins. picking up little stuff you don't thinmk about until it's in front of your face or it's not in the tool box when you go for it. I also picked up the fact I, m going to up the insurance for my tools, a chisel I bought 15yrs ago for 35.00 , is going for a 100.00 now.And I also get to be get there e-newsletter. The store has the type of tools I would have to get from Garrett Wade because no one else carried them or heard of them. Now screw Garrett Wade their customer service, isn't.The catalog gets thinner all the time. I tried Lee Valley once and they jumped through hoops for a minor item, I'll give my money to Canada, they acted like they wanted it . The Wood craft store in my area I don't believe will ever survive, not through fault of the owners. A Home Despot is 4 blks away, 1/4 mile up the road is a store that sells contractor type power tools from skil 77's to Powermatic 66's and everthing in between, smaller and larger. The quality of the carbide tooling is superior up the road and is geared towards people who use tools to buy groceries. This is called an affluent area, people are dumping 10mill for a house and then 2 mill more on a new pool house. The median price for a house for regular folks is 700k.The people who are the 10 mill league don't use tools, they pay people to do that stuff for them, the 700k folks are working 2 jobs and the spousal member works also just to tread water. Not a whole of diposable income in that group.Silicon Valley is still breathing on one lung, and even when it was booming, there couldn't be that many computer engineers who did woodworking(could be wrong on that one).I hope they can stay in business it just seem there is a lot of obstacles in their path. Sorry if I ran away with this.
Highfigh,
I've had the same type of experience at the West Allis store. The last time I was in there, the clerk was clearing some paperwork out of the way to check me out, when another customer came and asked where "such an such" was. The clerk never said a word to me, left me standing at the counter with my dye, and went help this person. I've never been so tempted to just walk out the door without paying for something. I finally tracked someone else down in the back and checked out ten minutes later. If you're ever heading north, I've had very good experiences with the one in Appleton and if you're that far, it's only a couple of more minutes to the woodworking store in Green Bay.
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
I won't drive that far for what should be in stock at the local store. As it is, I'm about 2 bad experiences away from giving the owner an earful about how he apparently doesn't understand retail and that people are tired of this kind of thing. Otherwise, he'll either stay in business in spite of the problems or go out of business/sell it. If he sells it, I want to know about it, though.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
That was the time to ask for the owner or at least the manager and explain what just happened. If the offending clerk was the manager, ask for the owner's phone number. If that was the owner, then explain why you will not be back and why you will tell all your woodworking friends not the patronize his store.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
The local Woodcraft store here (Roanoke, VA) is staffed by friendly folks that seem fairly knowlegeable.
So far they've had just about everything I've asked for in stock, when they haven't, they've had reliable re-stock dates.
They stock some wood, it's expensive per bf, but if you only need a few bf, it's cheaper than a 120 mile round trip to Wall's in North Carolina.
All in all, I'm pleased with the service I've gotten there. My son gave me a LN #4½ for Christmas, I'll probably get a York frog from Woodcraft.
They stock Whiteside router bits -- although I seldom use them -- and enough chisels to put me on the road to insolvency. They're not afraid to recommend another store if they don't have it. That says a lot to me.
I'll second the recco for the Roanoke store. I get back down to WVa once or twice each year, and I've dropped into the Roanoke store several times on my way to/from the airport. Friendly, most knowledgeable staff...quite a change from a couple other WC stores I've visited.Regards,
I shop at a Woodcraft near my work. I like them for hand tools, hardware such as hinges and casters, and consumables like glue. I've also bought some jigs and small power items (Fein vac on closeout). For major purchases like stationary machines I prefer a long time business in the area catering to the professional trades.
-robert
I've been following this thread and you've gotten a lot of responses from shoppers, but none from owners. One poster had an excellent comment -- that it's all about support from the franchisor. The only way to get the line on that is to talk to franchisees. If you enquire about a franchise and ask for the UFOC, it'll list all the existing franchises and give you a lot of other useful information relevant to your decision. One of the most important considerations is your own personallity. If you are the type who likes to have a strict rulebook to follow, and conformity doesn't bother you, then franchising is definately something you should look into. If you want to be your own boss, and do things your way (instead of "by the book"), don't think twice about buying a franchise. You, and the franchisor, will both be miserable for the next 20 years. Finally, there are no guarantees in the world of retail. More new businesses fail than succeed. While buying a franchise my give you somewhat better odds, it does NOT mean your business can't/won't tank for any number of reasons. Caveat Emptor!
Mike Hennessy
(A satisfied Woodcraft Supply customer for about 30 years now.)
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks Mike, I've already spoken to two owners (Cleveland area, and Minnesota area) I will be calling others in the near term.Mark
Measure it with a Micrometer,
Mark it with Chalk,
Cut it with an Ax.
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
I have given it consideration as well. There is one that opened near my work (about 3/4's of the way between work and home). The store is nice and well stocked. Power tool prices are far too high (i.e. DW621 $230 plus 7.75% sales tax and is JUST the router). Amazon $199 and free S&H = savings of $47.83 after tax or 24%). Staff is somewhat knowledgable, but more sales than knowledge oriented.
Lumber is overpriced as well and the selection is limited. I have an independent "woodworkers shop" about 30 minutes from my house who's tool prices are a little lower and the wood prices are FAR lower on a MUCH LARGER selection. I shop here far more often eventhough it is out of my way in a direction I have no other reason to travel.
I duck into Woodcraft now and again for items on sale in the flyer and check the clearance setion out. Sometimes I buy jig parts, but in general when I am going to spend $200 - $2,000 I definately shop elsewhere as Woodcraft is not competative on big $ items.
Don't forget, if you want a reliable, knowledgeable and professional staff that is willing to work retail hours, THEY WON'T COME CHEAP!!!!! But you will need that kind of staff to sell at the Woodcraft prices.
What ever you decide, best of luck.
Even though I posted on this thread earlier, I'm going to add to my earlier comments.
After following the many great comments in this thread, one thing that stands out is that those (customers) who are satisfied with "their" WC store get good or better customer service there. As I've already mentioned, the WC here serves up excellent customer service, so I keep going back. I do have to admit that I am somewhat selective in what I buy there, but am a steady customer. It happens to be my personal quirk, but I'm willing to spend a few more $$ for excellent customer service vs a somewhat lower price and poor or non-existent customer service, whether in a brick & mortar or on-line (customer service is one of the reasons that I REALLY like LN & LV). There are a number of local businesses that I absolutely refuse to patronize, even though they have the best price on their items, simply because their customer service, to be polite, sucks....
A minor gloat here....the local WC is having a hands-on demonstration day on Saturday, with about 10 different skills/tools being demonstrated. The owner called me up today and asked if I wanted to do his hand plane and scraper demonstration station for him. My answer was, naturally, a resounding YES!!! (A golden opportunity to maybe convert a couple of Normites to the Neander Side.... LOL) I thought it rather an honor that he thought of me when he needed someone for his plane demo station...so I'm going to have a ball for about 5 hours showing folks what a good hand plane and a good scraper will do for them and their project.... (ear to ear grin!!)
Back to the subject at hand...I think -- from the customer point of view -- that one of the major determinants of a successful WC store is the level of customer service. The WC store here in Albuquerque (along with many other WC stores elsewhere mentioned in this thread) has that part of it down.
So, I guess that if I were to make any "recommendations" should you decide to go the franchise route, mine would be that you make sure that the customer service part of your business is up to snuff.
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