I just read a FWW router bit test from a while back but didn’t see any information on Woodcraft router bits. For the price, if purchased in sets, the MLCS bits seem to be good and reasonably priced. Are the Woodcraft bits at least equal in quality and longevity of the MLCS bits? How are the quality of bits such as Lee Valley and Rocker?
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Replies
I have a bunch of the woodcraft bits. I bought them during one of their $5 bit sales (they have one going on now). They are not bad. I've used them quit a bit. I consider them throw aways. I figure for $5.00, use them till they get dull and chuck em. For my bits that I want to keep, I get whiteside. I like them. I have not used MLCS, so I can't speak to their quaility.
I had a job to run over 1500 lf of ogee for a base trim for a customer. This was to be run in pine. I did not want to burn up my good LRH bit so I bought two of the $5.00 bits from WoodCraft. I only had to run one of the bits and it lasted through the whole job. I expected it to burn up but it didn't. I was suprised and have since bought several of the $5.00 bits. However when I need a really good bit like stile and rail, I go with LRH.
Thomas
I have several WC bits and several MLCS bits....I find the WC bits to be at least comparable to my MLCS bits. The WC are typically less expensive when buying them individually. Don't overlook some of the great deals on Holbren bits either.
None of those value bits are as good as my Freud and Whitesides though, but there's a big cost difference that can be harder to justify.
The WC & MCLS bits are indistinguishable in quality and performance. I have no experience with the Lee Valley or Rockler bits.
Steve
That FWW test from several years ago was the only instance I have ever seen where an attempt was made to test router bits at least somewhat scientifically. Even so, there was a considerable amount of controversy regarding the test results.
The best opportunity I've had to compare various manufacturer's bits, at least fairly systematically, was when I had a job making casings and baseboards for a 3 story house that was being flipped. The task required a number of different profiles, and I ended up using bits from Whiteside, CMT, Eagle, and MLCS.
Basically, I concluded you get what you pay for in router bits.
The CMT and Whiteside bits sailed through their task; the Eagle bit profile required some sanding toward the end of the run; but with the MLCS bit, it dulled fairly quickly, and I ended up having to buy 3 bits of the same profile to get through the job.
So, for bits that you are sure will see heavy use, I think it makes sense to pay top dollar. For bits that you need only for a one-time or short run use, the cheaper offerings will do just fine.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Have had several problems with MLCS bits (bearings and longevity). I consider Whiteside bits very good quality. Also, the Leigh Valley bits are good. However, I consider the bits from Woodline (http://www.woodline.com or 800 472 6950) the best buy for the money. CMT, Eagle, etc., the more expensive bits, are probably longer lasting. But, being an amateur, hobby woodworker, I can't, or don't keep up with the long term longevity of my bits. Because of this, I feel it is better to buy mid-priced bits. I am not connected in any way with Woodline or any of their products. Just a user.
Billy B.
I'll second Billy B.'s comments.
I have a lot of old Jessadas, some Freuds, a lot of CMT's, some Woodcrafts, a bunch of Amanas, a Bosch or two, and some Akedas. I also have Felder and CMT shaper multi-profile insert systems. I agree, you get what you pay for.
I recently used Woodline bits at a woodworking school. I ordered some up and they are what I expected for less money than I expected. I'll buy more of them than the 6 I have now....
Rod
Are those Woodline router bits made in the USA?
Pardon my ignorance, but what is/are MLCS bits? Thanks. Tom
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/
Thanks. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Timely that you should raise this question. I just bought a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP router and a table. Now I'm trying to determine the best router bits to buy. I find some sets available from MLCS and Freud that seem reasonably priced compared to buying individual bits. But, are the bits in the sets the same quality as the individual bits?
Edited 11/4/2006 6:47 pm ET by imcfo
The bits in some sets are identical but that's not the case with all brands. I believe the Whiteside sets are the same bits as their individuals, but I'm fairly sure that MLCS sets differ slightly from the individual bits.....things change quickly, so it's difficult to stay current! My individual bits from MLCS have a slightly different color and some other variations from my set bits, but it may just be from different "eras" of manufacture.
Thanks for the information. I'm scouting around on the internet for bits and detailed descriptions are difficult to come by.
Freud bits are of a much higher quality than MLCS. Where are you finding inexpensive (relatively) Freud sets? I wanna go there!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm looking at Amazon for Freud bits and many have an instant 10% rebate plus at $25-$50 promotional reduction depending on quantity. For example, there is a 13 bit set for $200 with a 10% instant rebate plus $25 promotional discount bringing the price to $155 or $12 per bit average cost. Plus free shipping and no tax. Seems like a good deal if the bits in the set are the same quality as the individual bits.
I have been very impressed with Infinity router bits. These, too, will go on special from time to time. Woodcraft bits are not quite top shelf, but are very good considering. The BEST router bits that I own, however, are made by festool. They are metric sized, but even dovetail bits cut through stock better than any bit I own, and I have used Whiteside etc
Jimmy
Thanks. I'll take a look at Infinity, but Festool is out of my league.
I had never head of Infinity bits before they were mentioned here.I looked them up, and was pleased to see they have various molding profiles not commonly available.Anybody else have experience with them?http://www.infinitytools.com/AboutUs.asp********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I've used a large 45d Infinity chamfer bit and thought it was very good quality. I didn't see any advantage of the Taiwanese Infinity over the US made Whiteside in price or quality though, so I don't see an advantage by going with them unless they offer a profile that Whiteside doesn't.
In looking through their web site, I noticed Infinity does have some profiles in their line of molding bits that I have not seen anywhere else. Unless warned off the brand for really crappy quality, I'd like to try a few of them. In the last couple of years, I have done a lot of period casings for house renovations, and they have a few bits that I would like to have in my stash. Thanks.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I haven't had any experience with the current inteneration of Infinity. However, the company is owned by the son of Vendito (SP?), who used to own Jesada. I have a lot of Jesada bits. Jesada was a router company that was around about 10 years ago. They used to sell bits in conjunction with CMT. Some were made here and some in Italy. Jesada got into a battle with CMT and they fought a trademark war over the orange coating on the bits. Jesada lost and they changed over to white (their ads showed an Orange with white stripes thru it). They were reviewed in the aforementioned FWW article.
When Vendito sold the company, he made a trade agreement to not go into business with a new start-up company. Jessada bits went downhill under the new owner and ended up bankrupt. Now someone is salvaging the name and using the old client list to distribute catalogs, but its not the same router bits. Vendito's son opened his own company, shortly after the father sold his off. I gotta believe that the son worked hand in hand with dad and knows his stuff. The bits have been reviewed by several of the magazines and I haven't heard any complaints. Their Dadonator blade has had an award... I'd buy them if they had a profile that I wanted.
Rod
Thanks for the background.In fact in looking at the Infinity site, I wondered if it had any connection with Jessada. I saw that the former is located in Tampa, whereas the latter, IIRC, was in Miami. I remember that the Jessada bits performed miserably in the FWW review, but I had previously bought a number of them, and they seemed ok to me.However, I didn't buy anything from them after that bad review, and it looks like many others did the same.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
There is a lot more to the CMT vs Jesada story. Carlo tried to put the screws to CMT. He was infringing on CMT patents. Jesada was named after his kids; Jesica, Sara and David. I own more than a few Jesada bits but wouldn't buy a thing from his son Infinity. Here today, gone tomorrow.DJK
I always figured there was something murky going on.When he first started, was he selling the orange CMT bits (from Italy) under his Jessada brand, or did he just use the orange color on the bits he was selling? IIRC, CMT bits were not sold in the country at the time he started --- or at least they were not widely sold, except maybe to industrial customers. I still have one of the orange bits that was striped with what looked like white finger nail polish after his dust-up with CMT.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I have two 3/8" quarter round bits, one Freud, and the other MLCS, the Freud has a little larger bearing and a little more metal in the head of the cutter but when processing several hundred lineal feet of 100 year old white oak with the finish still on I saw no difference in the performance of either. Both are still sharp and there was no tear out with either. The Freud cost about twice the price of the MCLS as both were purchased via mail order and MCLS has no charge and there was a $5.95 fee on the Freud. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another MCLS bit.
I don't believe that's correct.....I did some checking with other vendors who are certain that Woodline bits are made in Asia.....China is the alleged country of origin. I was of the impression that they are on par with MLCS, Holbren, and other decent Asian made value bits.
Edited 11/5/2006 11:33 am ET by Knotscott
Scott is 100% correct, Woodline bits are made in Asia.
The only US made bits I know of are Whiteside, LRH, Eagle and maybe a few smaller shops.
Brian
Are Infinity products made in Asia too?
Yes, Last I knew they were made in Taiwan. Out of all the imports they do a good job for the money I would buy Whiteside, CMT, Freud or Amana.
Didn't know that about Woodline. Sorry.
All are made in Asia? Does that include CMT and Freud? I thought that they were made in Italy (I'm pretty sure that CMT is...They have a photo of their plant). Or are they just now getting their raw materials there and then shipping the carbide to Asia?
Rod
Here is what I know or believe to know.
Freud & CMT made in Italy
Whiteside & Eagle made in USA
Amana made in Israel
MLCS Katana made in Taiwan, regular bits made in China
Infinity made in Taiwan
Rockler & Woodcraft made in Taiwan, Rockler may be China
Porter Cable made in Taiwan
When I bought my first router I bought a set of bits from MLCS and then some additional individual bits, because they were cheap. I have found that you get what you pay for. The MLCS bits rust easily, dull quickly, and are generally not worth the money. I also have bits from Amana, Bosch, Freud, and Woodcraft. My favorites by far are Bosch and Freud. They seem to hold an edge for a very long time. If you are buying a bit for one specific use only (i.e. a one-time job for a run of molding) you could probably get away with a cheap bit. I do have some Woodline bits but haven't used them yet. Also, Whiteside bits have a great reputation.
As with most tools, the differences are what you don't or can't see. In the case of router bits, there can be differences in the blank, the quality of the carbide, the brazing and the size of the carbide. Industrial bits have higher quality, finer grain, carbide. The process of brazing can have a big effect on the carbide. The temperature and flux are important. This can get very complicated. For the most part, industrial bits have much thicker carbide that can stand up to many more sharpenings. When you sharpen lesser quality bits, and the carbide gets very thin, the carbide is more likely to fracture. Finer grades of carbide are less subject to irregularities in the metal, less porosity, cobalt puddling, etc.
Brand new, most bits do a pretty good job. The real inexpensive ones aren't worth buying. There are plenty of mid priced bits that are fine. Most of them have been mentioned. I'm a bargain hunter and have had good service from bits by Carbtech, Rockler, Bosch, PC and others. I avoid 1/4" shank bits of all brands except those for the laminate trimmer. Things like bearings are of little significance since they are easy to swap out. Just don't lose the screws, there are different lengths and thread patterns.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi Rover,
I have about a hundred router bits. A lot of duplicates. I do have Freud, Delta, Porter Cable and numerous Craftsman(Sears) bits. My favorite bits are Dimar. I also like Lee Valley bits. Lee Valley bits are pretty uniform qualitywise, especially their bit sets.
I have had very good luck buying at places like Sears by looking close at their individual bits. There is a visible difference between a quality bit and a not so good bit. I suspect that Sears and some other discount sellers use several different manufacturers to make their bits.
If you buy budget bit sets, you might find some reasonably good bits and some lower quality bits in the set.
If you are new to router bits, try taking a close look at a freud bit and compare it to a bit that costs quite a bit less. Side by side comparison if you can.
Good Luck
Ed
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