Anyone know – after all the fuss – if the Woodriver planes are being discontinued?
Looking at woodcraft.com, both the #4 and #6 are no longer shown. Only the #3 and #5. Plus they don’t seem to have their own category anymore, either.
Maybe they figured out that when you can get a reasonably decent bedrock-style plane with a thick 1/8 iron and chipreaker for $100 or so, it doesn’t make much sense to buy a Pinnacle Blade and cap iron for the same amount.
So – discontinue the planes, sell more blades…?
Replies
Maybe Woodcraft misses Lie-Nielsen and are trying to make amends. Losing LN may have hurt their sales in other product categories since people don't have a reason to go to the store anymore?
WC voiced a desire to not lose LN before they lost them when LN realized they had different ideals.
I don't think WC is going to be getting LN back. You can always be wrong about anything, but I'd be really surprised by that.
I haven't had any contact with anyone from WC since this post was brought up, and am hesitant to just shoot off an email to find out the whole story and burn up my "question asking capital" on something I don't have any regard for.
I kind of expected that by now, we'd be seeing a different offering of higher quality planes by them and a higher-end japanese chisel offering, but things change fast in this market - too fast for me to follow.
Future of Woodcraft and Rockler
David,
I have been following your posts on the Wood River planes, and where Woodcraft is going. I work for the franchisee of the Woodcraft store in Springfield, VA, but I have NO inside info as to what directions the company is taking. I do have an idea on where it may be going, based solely on the catalogues that I get. If you don't get the Rockler catalog, you should. Rockler has been making fundamental changes. The catalog no longer lists any big tools. They have only one set of chisels - Irwins. They have only one line of cheap planes. There are no high end hand tools. Rockler has always done a lot with routers and router tables and router raisers, and bits, etc and that continues.
Before I retired, I used to visit the Rockler store in Pasadena, CA about five times a year and got to know the store pretty well. I really enjoyed my visits there. The big difference between Rockler and Woodcraft back then was that Rockler had a much bigger line of hardware - hinges, door knobs, pulls, etc etc etc.
If you look at the latest few Rockler catalogs, you will see that they look more like Van Dykes than anything else. They are importing all sorts of hardware and furniture pieces (legs, table leaves, ..........and on and on. The catalog is getting bigger and bigger, but in the direction of Van Dykes, not in the direction you would expect a tool store to take. All of this stuff is imported and probably has a high markup and profit margin. That is good for business.
At Woodcraft, it isn't hard to notice that the high end hand tools are just about gone. No more Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley. They still carry the great Pfeil carving gouges - utterly top notch. They carry Cosman's $250 saw and his $100 replacement sets for plane blades and chip breakers. However, my guess is that those will not sell in quantity.
Woodccraft continues with Festool and Fein. However, I believe it is nearly impossible for a small company like Woodcraft to compete with the Big Box stores on large power tools and hand power tools.
Given all of this, my instinct tells me that the market forces that are driving Rockler, will soon be driving Woodcraft. I wouldn't doubt that the WC caalog will look like the Rockler catalog in a while.
There was a time when Woodcraft carried really high end hand tools for woodworking, including Holtey planes, and many of the other high end hand planes. No more. I don't believe the markup is there for them to make a decent profit, and thus stay in business.
Caesar diviided Gaul up into three parts. I divide the woodworking world up into three parts: Harry Homeowner, the contractors who do remodelling of kitchens and bathrooms, and the "high end hobbyists". The High End Hobbyist woodworkers are the ones who inhabit places like Fine Woodworking's Knots website. Hign end hobbyists tend to be older guys with a lot of disposable income, and they like "nice stuff". I have the feeling that this group is happy dealing with Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, Blue Spruce, and the boutique tool makers directly. They go to the Lie Nielsen shows. They subscribe to FWW. But there are relatively few of these High End Hobbyists, and certainly not enough to keep Woodcraft and Rockler going.
I can't see Rockler and Woodcraft wanting to compete with Home Depot, Lowes and Sears on consumer tools for Harry Homeowner. That would be a losing situation.
So what is left? The contractors, and also, the specialty hardware and furniture parts that Rockler and VanDykes sell.
VanDykes was the first to stake out the latter field, and now Rockler is moving in that direction. I wouldn't doubt Woodcraft moves there too.
What do you think of my analysis? Let me restate - I have absolutely no inside information as to where Woodcraft is going. I was devastated when Lie Nielsen stopped selling to Woodcraft, since I was buying LN tools at a good discount. That is now a thing of the past.
Have fun. Keep posting. I enjoy your ideas. Indeed, I tell my fellow part time workers at the WC store the news of the company that I hear from you. :-)
Mel
Mel
Your analysis/predictions seem reasonable, Mel. But, WC, Rockler and the like may be getting a larger share of the Harry/Harriet Homeowner dollar than we might suspect. Also, the "lot of disposable income" part doesn't apply to all of us here - at least not me. While I spend money at WC and Rockler, I also buy from Woodworker's Supply (http://woodworker.com/), as well as dealing directly with LN, LV and others. Woodworker's Supply still carries a decent array of machines, although their selection of hand tools leans toward the import side. But, their prices are competitive with most dealers, even the discount suppliers, some of which may be online-only fronts with no real inventory.
The downside to WC's franchise system is that local stores depend on local sales to fund inventory. The local WC no longer has much in the way of inventory, as a result. So, it has been on a downward spiral for a while, and is up for sale. I'd love to do my part to keep them in business, but they have to have inventory for me to do that.
Also missing from your analysis is the effect of Internet purchasing. Based on the response from the local WC franchise, it appears that a large percentage of folks use local stores to look at and handle tools, then purchase online at the best price they can find. That, of course, ensures that the local guy won't be there for long. But, the shipping/returning cycle is good for UPS and FedEx, I suppose.
Obviously, I don't have any particularly reliable insight, since my woodworking future foretelling is limited by the opacity of my wooden (not crystal) ball. But, expressing opinions can be fun, too.
Ralph,
Thanks for your response. As I said, my thoughts were just thoughts. I have no inside info. You added two really key ideas.
1) an increased involvement by Harry and Harriet Homeowner.
I am not sure I agree with that. H and H are more likely to go to Home Depot and Lowes, who have a plethora of big and small power tools at very low prices. Not many homeowners want to buy a green Festool for $1300 when they can get something that looks similar at the Big Box stores for $300. Homeowners don't know enough about the differences between tool to be willing to pay the big extra bucks for the good stuff.
On the other hand, you may be right. If Rockler and Woodcraft go the same route that Rockler is currently going in, more homeowners will come in looking for hinges and drawer pulls, etc. THAT COULD BE BIG!
A lot of homeowners do some furniture stripping and refinishing. To do that, they go to Home Depot and get a Gallon of Stripper for $25, and a pack of #4 steel wool for a few bucks, and a can of Minwax finish for $10. WC and Rockler dont carry those three items. They are not set up to take care of the "strippers". Have you ever seen the face of a homeowner when they see the cost of a can of $35 Waterlox!!!!!!!
If WC and Rockler want to go after the homeowner, they are going to need to make a strong and distinct play in that direction. It does involve head to head competition with the Big Box stores, and I am not sure that is winnable. Possibly?
2) People are putting "hands on" in brick and mortar stores and they buying on-line.
You say this is hurting WC and Roclker. I believe that Economics is Economics. If I can buy Tool X in a store for $85 or on line for $60, and not have to pay shipping or tax, guess what I am going to do. BUT ROCKLER and WC are also on line. So what does all of this mean? I guess you are saying that other on-line stores are charging less for some items Rockler and WC's on line stores. The implication of that seems to me to be very clear.
Woodcraft has some REAL BARGAINS. Look at their workbench vises. Some are concerned that they are not made in the US, but they are very cheap, and they work very well, and they are just iron, so they last a long time. I believe that the future of these stores is in finding items that they can sell for less than other stores can sell them. For example, WC went after a set of planes that look high end, but initially the quality was not good. Two things resulted. LN stopped selling to them, and now they seem to be redesigning their planes. Losing LN an LV was not good, because their tools were a "Draw" to the "fine woodworkers". But if WC could develop a good set of planes for half of the cost of LN or LV, they might just be onto something. To do this, they would have to expand the idea way beyond planes. THey would have to to this to a large number of tools. In essence, they would have to go into direct competition with Tom LN and Rob L in the entrepreneurial tool business. THIS SOUNDS RISKY TO ME. Rob and Tom have very good teams doing this. Stanley, as we have seen, does not. That is not an easy game to play
The next time you go to the local WC store, watch the router bit section for a while. Contractors come in and want specific bits RIGHT NOW for this afternoon's work. Price is not a factor. They need them NOW. So why didn't they realize they would ned them three days ago and order them off the web for a much cheaper price??????? Now that is an interesting question. I do think that Rockler has done very well in the whole "router" arena. I believe they bought Bench Dog, and they have lots of tables, etc that they build under their own name. SO this is possible. Making money on router bits is not an easy gig. Look on the web for how cheaply they sell for. I have a number of WC store brand bits, and they work well for me, and they are priced low.
Anyway, as you can see, you have made me think more broadly. Thank you for doing that. I didn't comment on the Roclkler approach of owning the stores and WC going the franchise route. From what I can see, there are some WC store franchisees who seem to be doing pretty well, owning two or three stores in an area, and doing a lot of hands on management. I am not sure that WC asks you to take a course in how to manage a retail store before they sell you the franchise. Having an interest in woodwork is not a guarantee that you are a great retail businessperson. When WC went the franchise route, the economy was good. I wouldn't want to be a franchisee who bought just before the economic recession. McDonald's did well by franchising, as did many others. I don't much about that the franchising business at all. I would guess that WC did well in the initial years they did that. But there is a difference between McDonalds and a tool store. The McD's menu changes very slowly. The WC and Rockler catalog change pretty radically over the years, with Roclkler's changing radically lately.
I admire entrepreneurs greatly - like the folks who have WC franchises. I wish them the best. Tom and Rob are proof positive that a good tool company can be built and grown, and that there is room for more than one.
I think that one of the big problems with increasing sales in wood tools these days here in the US is that the High Schools have stopped teaching Shop, and now high school and college kids have no idea what hand tools are. I just don't see the young folk getting into woodwork. They are more interested in electronic gadgets and exciting things to do on them. In comparison, woodworking goes very slowly and doesn't have the same excitement. If I was figuring how to make money selling stuff to high school students and college students these days, I am not sure I would pick "woodworking tools". When I look at the average age of the members of the local woodworking guild, and the local woodcarvers group, i find that, at 67, I am one of the youngest members. EGAD!!!!!!!! Even if youngsters got into woodworking, can you imagine a 24 year old being able to buy Lie Nielsen of Lee Valley tools?
All in all, I still believe that WC may well follow Roclker down the road that Rockler is creating. Think about it. You can buy all of the parts to make a Victorian round oak table with carved lions' feet, and you can easily put it together with a limited set of tools. Doing that is a good way to impress your girlfriend.
Let me know what you think.
Mel
biz demographics
Business demographics probably vary widely by area, and which other sources are available. Here, local contractors probably go to Woodworker's Supply, Lowes or Home Despot for emergency purchases. I have one Lowes store about a half-mile away, anoter within five miles, and two Home Despots in different directions at about that distance. Woodworker's Supply is right off I-25, in the heart of the industrial area. That puts them close to the highway, where the contracttors drive up and down with their "Will build for food" signs on their trucks. ;-)
I do wonder why there aren't any Woodcraft stores in the UK, though. One would think that a large green WC sign would get a lot of foot traffic there. ;-)
Mel -
My discussions with woodcraft folks never go beyond individual tools, so I have no idea what direction they're ultimately going to go.
I do have the same thoughts as you, though, that I don't know how a place is going to make money in the days of drop shipping, selling high cost, low margin and low turnover tools, except in special cases where you're the sole source, like the pfeil tools.
I started woodworking, I guess, about 4 years ago now. When i first started, I got a table saw and a router table, jointer, planer, etc...like every publication was implying a hobby woodworker should have then. Rockler had a few hand tool accessories worth having back then, but they were not competitive on price. Still, I think I may have gotten a thing or two there out of convenience, and I know i've gotten some cheap chinese hardware (hinges and such) for small cabinets around the shop and for making replacement recessed medicine cabinets in my house.
Now, I can't think of anything they have that I'd want (i only live about 2 miles from the pittsburgh rockler) other than some brands of wax and finishes that i can't go right up the hill to home depot to get (home depot also doesn't have flattering prices on consumables, but I guess they have to pay the rent somehow, and their prices are better than rockler's by almost the constant rockler coupon on most things).
I haven't gone in there in quite some time for two reasons:
1) there's really nothing in there for me, consumables being the only thing that i use regularly, and I can get them cheaper anywhere else, the hand tools are long gone, and I've got no interest in buying another router at 1 1/2 times what it costs elsewhere, nor interest in any of the millions of poorly made chinese measuring tools for the same cost as a used starrett tool. I understand their model, but $40 for a $2 square is offensive. It is what it is.
2) I used to go scout wood, and from time to time, there is something cheap there, like $4 a bd foot cherry that's s2s. In the end, though, it usually turns out to be low quailty, low density, poor color wood, and anything that looks any good on permanent display is 2x the going rate. I can get very good cherry for $5 a board foot, so I'm cheating myself out of material that's nice to work with for little different, and the shop where I can get good wood is a true full service shop, always at that price.
What I did notice when I was going there regularly to scout the wood bargain bin, etc, was that more than half of the people in the store were there to get something "for their dad" or "for restoring" something, and most of the sentiment was to turn and look at the carving tools and remark about the cost, or turn and look at the budget kumagoro chisels ($30 each) and remark about their outlandish cost. I suspect those customers are where their market share is going to come from, and they know it.
They still have router bits aplenty, and they still have some nice TS blades, but the rest of the store is melamine faced particleboard or ply type junk,poor quality imported copies of tools I'd rather see in there, overpriced portable power tools, and expensive consumables and finishes. I don't generally need more router bits or TS blades. I would love to see reasonably priced consumables, but that isn't going to occur. It actually costs me less to order and ship consumables like sandpaper, etc, which is shocking.
I really hope woodcraft doesn't go that direction. When I do talk about tools with someone from there, they seem to have a genuine interest in them. Just as they seemed to have had a genuine interest in keeping LN, even after they were dropped.
It's my opinion, and only my opinion, that they're not done with hand tools yet, but I can't see how they can ignore the mcfeeleys, rockler, etc. trend toward lower cost higher margin goods to pay the bills. Hopefully, there will be enough room in the store (and online) for some good tools next to all of that stuff, though.
I never like to be involved in business related questions that are any deeper than "is there any chance we'll get our location back sometime", so I'll be more than satisfied to wait and see if my guesses are true.
Woodcraft Customer Service - "#4 and #6 No Longer Available"
Thanks guys for the comments. For the heck of it, I just spoke to nice lady at Parkersburg Customer Service.
She said the Woodriver #4 and #6 ''are no longer available". I asked if they were just out of stock temporarily. The answer was "No, they are no longer available at all."
I then asked about the remaining #3 and #5 "were they to be discontinued too?" She did not know.
Still, the remaining #3 and #5 make a nice pair.
If you have been thinking of trying one or both - better order ASAP.
Otherwise it seems shortly your $100+ will only get you a replacement blade and chipbreaker.
I did get a complete set of Woodrivers when they were 20% off and free shipping. Every one was OK - and I'm happy with them all.
Chris
That's kind of odd. Maybe the #6 didn't sell well because of the beating it takes on Leach's page. Too bad, because I think it's a great size to have for people who are building the size of stuff most of us build.
The #4 is confusing, though. I wonder if there was some scuttle about it interfering with the stanley line of planes, since it's the same size as the sw #4, and probably just as well made and finished.
I'm almost inclined to send an email and find out if the plans to introduce a line of US machined and finished planes in the future has changed.
Per speculation
CAHudson42:
Without a statement from the decision makers at Woodcraft any thoughts about the reasons for discontinuing the Woodriver planes is pure speculation. Products are discontinued for all kinds of reasons. Various manufacturing issues, supply problems, poor sales, patent violations, distribution problems, the list goes on. I doubt that it had anything to do with the release of Stanley's new line of junk planes. It is more likely that either profit forecasts showed the line was a waste of time and not worth the effort to produce or that the current manufacturer can't meet quality control/production requirements to make the line viable. My guess (yes guess) is that they still have inventory of the #3 and #5 and when they're gone they're gone.
gdblake
Woodriver Planes Speculation
I'm with gdblake - when the #3 and #5 are gone - they are gone.
As a retired Manufacturing Engineer, I will speculate - even being made in China - profit margins were very low. Plus 'early returns' when quality apparently varied - would make that even worse.
Too bad. The current planes - IMHO - are 'great value for money'. There is NO conparison to the Bailey design ANANTS (I have three - including a #3 Kamal. All pretty much junk.) - Woodrivers are far superior in every way. And likely superior to the 'new' Stanley's (though that is also a speculation).
I also think DavidWeaver hit it right - business models that are incompatible. Who in their right mind would buy a Pinnacle blade and cap iron for essentially the same money as an entire bedrock-design plane - with similar thick blade and cap iron?
I'll bet margins on the Pinnacle blades and cap irons approach 70% - even after Cosman's cut. So -' kill the planes, sell more high margin blades'.
Finally, my #3 and #5 Woodrivers have no defects. If you buy one(s) - who knows. But my gamble with them paid off.
Close - but not equal - to the fit and finish of my LV BU smoother.
David - why not check your Woodcraft contact(s)? Very curious to hear 'the official reason' why they are discontinuing.
Chris
Good substitute
There remain available many old Bailey (and BedRock) planes in various conditions. Most are poor working specimens, but with proper fettling will make very fine and reliable tools. A potful of work can turn a $35 EBay special into a wonderfully functional heirloom. Before purchasing, be sure that you understand the lingo and history so some yahoo doesn't saddle you with a hybrid - they can in many cases be made to work perfectly, but they're valueless for resale. My favorites are the Type 15s and 16s which feature all of Stanley's progress and none of its later homey-handy degeneration.
Woodriver Planes - Going, Going, almost Gone..
Woodcraft site now only shows the #3 Woodriver Plane - at $109.99.
The #5 is now gone. As were the #4 and #6 earlier.
A recent parallel thread has the ongoing discussion of aftermarket irons and chipbreakers - IBC, Hock, whatever.
An Iron and chipbreaker is going to be $100 - +/-
If you are considering a pair for your #3, Why?
Get the Woodriver #3. Remember it is a Bedrock design. The blade and chipbreaker are 1/8". And despite what you might have heard - the plane is very well made. I was fortunate to get a complete set - #6 thru #3 - not one is defective.
Try one. If you don't like it - once they are gone - you will likely be easily able to get your money back on an eBay resale.
If you like it, sell your Bailey #3 with its original blade - and get back - what? Probably at least $50 of your $110. (#3's seem to go for a tad more than 4's and 5's)
Chris
Woodriver planes may be back
I asked a Woodcraft store owner about the Woodriver line of planes being discontinued. He said the line of planes is being reworked to make improvements to them and that, indeed, Woodcraft was eliminating current inventory. He didn't know when the "improved" line would be released. I guess the future of Woodriver planes go on the list of "wait and see items.
gdblake
Order now for shipping 7/7/10
You can order now for shipping on 7/7/10 and get the current listed price. They don't say what the new prices will be but they will increase. That's the scoop I got from the woodcraft store in southern California.
Jim
My memory's good, it's just short.
I would not be surprised to see the former WoodRiver planes reemerge under a new guise tied into the Rob Cosman affililiation with Woodcraft. Just say'in.........
New Woodriver Planes?
Handrubbed,
Could be... If so, I'll bet the new pricing will be right up there with LV or even LN.
Cosman won't want to cannabalize sales of those very high margin Pinnacle irons...:>)
The planes are available again at the same prices as before. There are also two new block planes (at least I think they are new).
Ok, i did get them some information, they (the woodriver planes) went offline and back on because of changes to the insides of the casting to their own design.
They also beefed up the adjuster lever and threads on threaded parts to hold things tight better.
The block planes are going to be based on knuckle cap stanley designs, but with some modifications (just what, i don't know).
I heard no mention of Cosman. I don't think the cosman line of tools and the WR stuff are intended to compete with each other.
Dave, from Pgh
Dave, from Pittsburgh....hello! Looks like I was wrong about the WooDriver planes morphing into a Rob Cosmo signature line. Don't you hate it when that happens? Its great that you got the skinny from WC on that. Do you happen to know if the Quangsheng line of planes sold in Europe and the WooDriver planes from WC are sourced from the same manufacturer? I was going to say that they sure look alike, but thats not really helpful because they both look exactly like LN planes also, don't they? Must be a coincidence.
Handrubbed
I don't know anything about who is actually making the planes, but it wouldn't be surprising if the group doing the actual manufacturing was selling them elsewhere.
I think when woodriver planes first came out, anyone who saw the borg branded planes that JWW had would've thought they were probably coming from the same place, but I don't know. It may not be a coincidence that the borg brand planes have also disappeared from JWW the same time the woodriver planes took a hike. The borg brand planes looked even more like LN planes than did the woodriver planes.
Strange, though, that the veritas scraper copy and what looks like a copy of the veritas pullshave are still available from JWW - maybe LV hasn't pushed the issue? (just looked to see if the borg stuff was still there).
The other dangerous thing with making that assumption is if one buyer works with the supplier and pays extra for spec that another doesn't. Dangerous might not be the right word, though, maybe just to say it could be an inaccurate assumption is probably better.
I'm pretty sure I found a distributor on one of the global trade sites that at least has some of the stuff a whole bunch of the different retailers sell (i.e., klingspor, woodcraft, mcfeely, rockler, etc...), and I found the butt chisels there similar to the style of the woodcraft chisel set that's on sale now and was a bit miffed that at the time woodcraft wasn't carrying the butt chisels....and then I went to the WC site and found them on it, so I was wrong. However, I didn't manage to run by them on WC's site, and never would've gotten them if I hadn't seen them on one of the global business sites first.
Anyway, the answer is that I don't know about the quangsheng planes, but they look a lot alike. At 120 quid, they don't look like a bargain alternative, though!
Just out of curiosity, i was going through the google links to quangsheng planes, and there is a blog entry that basically says straight out that they were developed with the help of woodcraft. That should pretty much cover it.
I don't know what the terms are here, so I won't just start cross posting peoples' blogs, but you can find the blog if you want. It's called "workshop heaven".
I just checked the Woodcraft Web Site and the woodriver planes are still listed at what looks like the same price. I did buy the #4 and #6 at 25% off at our local store last week.
Thye said they were just reducing inventory.
Domer
The Woodcraft site lists the planes as version 3
Domer:
Check this link to the Woodcraft website. http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/WoodRiver-V3-Bench-Planes.aspx
Even the link refers to the Woodriver planes as being version 3. Read the information, it clearly states they have made several improvements to the planes. Version 1 had serious problems with plane adjustment. Version 2 is what was being cleared out of inventory (which is what the original post was about). Version 3 is what is available now.
gdblake
more on differences in third generation Woodrivers
GD,
I just examined the second and third gen #6 a little more closely, and saw two things:
1) the second gen has a black coating which is very thick and gives a very smooth looking finish, while the third gen has a much thinker black coating (on the top/inside) which gives the appearance of a rougher casting. I cant tell if there is a real difference in the casting.
2) The rear tote on the third gen is closer to the front of the plane than on the second gen. This allows you to move the depth adjustment while planing on the third gen. However, it is still difficult to make that adjustment.
I will send more info as I learn.
Mel
Third generation Woodriver planes
GD,
I am in at the Woodcraft store right now. I am looking at the second and the third generation #6 WoodRiver planes side by side. I have not had a chance to fettle one and use it. I read the writeup which explains the differences between the second and third generation planes that you referred to on the Woodcraft site. It doesn't give specifics but said that made some improvements. I will include the actual Woodcraft writeup up at the end of my message.
Obviously, the 3rd generation planes come in a different package. They come in a cardboard box instead of the wood box that the first two generation planes came in. Also, in this store, the price went up on the #6 by $15.
Just for the fun of it, I typed "new Wood River plane" in Google, and read about 15 writeups in various places. Most of the reviews of the first and second generation Wood River planes were GREAT. They loved the planes. Apparently, the folks on the internet who wrote this stuff were more pleased with their first and second generation planes than Woodcraft was, because, Woodcraft went and had the third generation made. That tells you what you can believe when you read writeups on the web. Ha ha ha ha.
I can't wait to see a comparison of the second and third generation planes in actual use. I have seen second generation planes returned because of broken mechanisms. The Woodcraft writeup says that this has been strengthened. While I have not used the third gen, I have held it, and moved the mechanisms. The first thing I noticed is that the rear tote is too small for my hand, which is not very big. I have heard others say that gen 2 tote was too small also. The second thing I noticed is that the mechanism does not work as easily or smoothly as my Lie Nielsens. That is not a fair comparison, but it is a fact.
Interesting comparison. Rob Cosman's replacement combo for a plane blade and chipbreaker is about $100, but you also need to have a plane. An old Stanley migh cost about $65, so let's say this comes to about $165. A new third gen Wood River #6 costs $154. A new Lee Valley #6 costs about $256. A new Lie Nielsen #6 costs about $375 or so. You have to determine which is best for you. Of course, Woodcraft offers a 90 guarantee, and will take back the plane if you have a problem with it in the first 90 days. The warrantees on LV and LN are a bit different.
To each his own. Let's see how all of this works out.
Mel
here is the wc writeup on the Wood River #6 third generation plane
The No. 6, also called a “fore” plane is good for jointing edges and flattening and smoothing large surfaces, such as table tops, panels and workbench tops, where you might not want or need the length or weight of a larger plane. The extra length and width of the sole enables it to shave bumps and bridge valleys 7/8” wide better than a shorter plane. Weighing in at a stout 7-3/4 lbs, this plane's additional heft makes it easier for you to shave difficult stock without breaking a sweat.
V3: Like our previous WoodRiver® Bench Planes, our version 3 is based on the reliable Bedrock design and feature heavy, stress-relieved ductile iron castings, fully machined adjustable frogs and A-2 blades but we took the opportunity between manufacturing runs to do a critical review and make a few improvements. We’ve changed the shape of the rear tote and increased the diameter of the blade adjustment wheel to make advancing the blade a bit easier. We improved the lateral adjustment lever and added a traditional style bearing for better control of the blade. We’ve made numerous changes to the castings that result in better “feedback” and a solid feel to the user. Working closely with our own manufacturer, we’ve continued to make improvements in machining, finish and functionality which we feel have yielded hand planes that are meant to be used and offer an extraordinary value.
2-7/8” W x 17-3/4”L with 2-3/8”W blade
Modeled after the Bedrocks, Stanley Tool's very best line
WoodRiver® planes feature the same heavy castings (7-3/4 lbs) and fully machined frogs
Lightly finished Bubinga handles provide comfort and control
Tools require minimal tune-up prior to use
Commonly known as a “fore” plane
Soles and sides are machined flat and square within tightly held tolerances
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled