Hi just wanted to see what the opinion of this crowd was on woodworking classes on a community college level. At Laney college in Oakland CA they have classes aimed at both the trades (kitchen cabinets etc..) and classes aimed at “hobbyists” artists and custom furniture makers. There is quite a bit of disagreement as to what should the focus of the program with one side saying that community colleges should concentrate on vocational training only and the other side saying that they should do both especially in light of the changes in the cabinet industries.
Edited 9/14/2007 7:30 pm ET by troys
Replies
troys,
The Community College could offer adult education and could be staffed by experts in any given field without possessing teaching credentials in many cases .A vocational course aimed at occupational opportunities geared to kids out of high school would be of the greatest value to the economy ,imo .
soap box , sorry
Many of the High Schools have lost the shop classes , and offer little vocational training , this leaves Community College , or the real world , problem is it'd hard to get hired when you have no experience .
I think some still have home economics , but it's called something different .Our local HS has a foods class , maybe that is why so many young adults become cooks ?
If the kid can't get into MIT or OIT tech colleges he needs a stepping stone to learn marketable skills so they can earn a living .Not all students will go on to become a Doctor or Attorney or Professor , someone has got to keep those folks cars running and homes remodeled and concrete poured .
In Oregon of all states we offer no vocational High Schools to my knowledge and the Community Colleges have had budget cuts as well as the public and High Schools , heck our county libraries are now for the most part closed due to cuts in O & C funds in all timber counties .
no easy answers
regards dusty
Edited 9/15/2007 8:38 pm ET by oldusty
Thanks, I think the quality of the instructors at the CCs are pretty good in my experience I think the vision of programs tends to be a bit lacking mostly they tend to think in to narrow a way and not realize that expanding ones skill level is as important as learning one particular way of doing things.Troy
Dusty. I often see folks talk about the lack of "shop" classes in high school. This is true in many parts of the country but those were not vocational classes. The "shop" classes older Americans remember were "industrial arts", and offered only a cursory introduction to some limited areas of various trades. You wouldn't finish one of those classes with extensive training in power tools, OSHA regulations, blueprint reading or on site experience building a house from frame to finish. You would if you attended a "vocational" school.Vocational schools, at the high school level, are alive and well throughout most of the USA. They do some truly amazing things. The carpentry course I taught in Maine had it's own sub-division, building executive level houses each year. The students in the CAD class designed them, plumbing and electrical students did the utilities. In Massachusetts, where there are larger schools, Carpentry students built the school, the culinary arts programs ran full time restaurants. In various parts of the country students do all kinds of study from running farms to working on jet engines.The general public just isn't aware of what is going on in "technical" education. In your area, Rogue River, the population is small and the offerings at the local high school are agriculture related. However, in Medford there is a Vo-Tech high school that has a broader range of course offerings. You should take a drive up there and see what is going on. You will be surprised and will change your perception that trade training isn't available. http://www.medford.k12.ma.us/VocTech/itemDetail.aspx?categoryID=9829&RootCatID=9829&itemID=27973Students have the right in the USA to have an educational choice. Their course of interest may not be available in the local school but there are regional centers that can accommodate them. The class offerings will far surpass the "shop" class of old. They won't be a personal enrichment type of class, instead they will founded in industry based practices. The class will prepare students to enter the workforce with a set of competencies that the industry needs in it's employees. There are often school to work programs that may include actual experience in the workplace in addition to classroom studies. Courses aren't put together because someone thinks it's a good idea. Extensive analysis of the community and it's educational needs are done. The courses are set up to mimic the workplace so students gain marketable skills. Every school, instructor or student isn't the same. There are good ones and not so good ones. By and large, the vocational/technical schools around the country are first class.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I believe that there is a need for both areas. Anyone in the trades know that there is a shortage of good, qualified workers. Maybe the best thing would be for the trades to be in conjunction with an apprenticeship program where students work and go to school.
The other side would be for the artist types. This should be a combination of woodworking and design.
The problem is that in this day of funding cuts to colleges there would have to be a demand for the classes to make these programs, at any other level other than adult education, feasible.
Thanks as far as the demand for classes I think by encouraging students and people in the trades to look at the more "creative" classes they can increase their skill level quite a bit. As far as budgets go I watched them add landscaping complete with a half dozen large Japanese maples installed that must of cost 1500.00 each at the same time they said they where short of money for light bulbs, makes you wonder.Troy
Thanks for your reply, I think for the most part the CCs just offer the nuts and bolts classes and expect you to figure out the rest.
Troy
I definitely think there is room for both. Cerritos College near L.A. has programs throughout the day and night that cater to all levels of interest.
Thanks Cerritos college looks like it has a great program.Troy
It all depends on the staff and "human resources dept" of the Com/Coll. A local CC has some adult classes on WW and one of the Students came into the store and was bragging up the schools classes. We started asking about the classes. I was horrified. The school bought LN planes(great) But only because they thought they could be used directly out of the box. The instructor for that class, as I found out later, was a retired Lawyer who knew exactly nothing about ww. No wonder the student could only plane a tapered board.
Next story,Different Instructor. A Graduate student was told to get a six pack of chisels. Not a clue as to what He would be doing. I asked, mortising? dovetailing? paring? carving? I suggested that he go back to the instructor and get a course description. I also asked if the instructor was giving a sharpening lesson! He didn't know, I said ASK !!!!!!!!
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Very funny. I have heard that part of the problem is that the schools can't easily hire somebody with out a college degree but is qualified to teach the class so you end up with people with a law degree teaching woodworking. Kind of the blind leading the dumb. Oh well.Troy
There's always http://jobcorps.dol.gov/
In Canaan, VT they have an outstanding high school woodworking course and they also have trades curriculum where they buy old houses and restore them. Many students have gone on to very successful careers.
The woodshop is outfitted with some of the best machines I've seen. At least there's one out there.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/17/2007 9:57 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
These certainly don't have to be mutually exclusive I would think and could reinforce each other in tapping a wider range of funding resources. Programs that add FTEs ought to help the overall staffing and budget process. By the way, custom furniture making is vocational as well. The hobbyist's can help pay the freight, especially if they can increase machine utilization through classes at non-traditional hours. It's a side benefit that the "adjuncts" brought in to teach the "artistic" specialties can help fertilize the more purely vocational faculty. In short I firmly believe that diversity helps everyone.
preaching to the choir man.Thanks
Very interesting information, thanks for sharing
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