Replies

1. 
   ElBubba | Sep 10, 2007 04:08am | #1

   Oh no, I just signed up for several woodcraft seminars in Richmond in OCT....

1. 
   chalky | Sep 10, 2007 02:11pm | #5

   y experience with woodcraft wasn't good.  They wanted you to go home with a perfect project and so every cut was laid out for you, but it was never explained how they arrived at the dimensions or why we were doing what we were.  Hopefully, your experience will be better.

1. 
   9619 | Sep 10, 2007 06:19pm | #7

   Chalky,
   I agree with your concern about "courses" which focus on turning out a piece of woodwork in a few hours, rather than on attaining a new set of skills.I have a part time job at a Woodcraft, and have had this discussion with some of the folks who teach classes there. Their answers are wonderfully enlightening, and the answer was totally unexpected by me. Every one of them said that they are ready to teach skills or have the students build projects, -- whatever the students are willing to pay for. I have explored putting together a "course" on hand cut dovetails, and what I get back is: ok - as long as we make a box during the class. But that is not what I want to "teach". I would rather have the folks practice the underlying skills long enough so that they can cut to a line and pare to a line (to a reasonable degree). I can't get folks to sign up unless they get to make something. I have explored putting together other such short courses, and always with the same result. So, I have no plans on "teaching" for a while. Too bad.There are lots of reasons to take a woodworking course, many of which go unstated. One is to hang around with a big name for a week. Not that you don't learn from them, but I am not big into hero worship in woodworking. I haven't found many skills that no one in our woodworking guild has, so when I want to learn something, I just ask one of them. All are willing to share skills freely and openly. So if anyone lives near a woodworking club, I suggest you join. Next to Knots, it is the best way to learn that I can think of, and dues are of the order of $30 a year. Last point: You live near a Woodcraft. If you want to learn something, why not just go down and ask one of the folks who works there. Surely they know someone who is good at the skill you want to learn, and they should be willing to give you their name. Try that. When people come into the store and ask about sharpening, I volunteer to give them a lesson on hand sharpening, and I invite them to come back for more after they have practiced at home -- no charge. Where ever you see "Woodcraft" in this message, you can replace it by "Rockler" if one of those is around. I often wonder why anyone would want to pay to learn woodworking when so much is available for free. The local library is a hotbed of books on woodworking. Many have CDs as well. At many Rocklers and Woodcrafts, there are CDs in the TV all the time. Go down and learn some skills by watching. I hope that helps. It is not a panacea, but few of them exist.
   Mel
   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

2. 
   ElBubba | Sep 10, 2007 10:58pm | #11

   I wasn't paying enough attention; it turns out I'm attending a woodWORKS class not woodCRAFT.  I'm still glad about your feedback about woodcraft because they're not too far down the road and I've thought about going to one of their classes.

2. 
   ctsjr | Sep 10, 2007 04:30am | #2

   Chalky

   I went last year and took the Woodworking Essentials class. It was an awesome experience. I am going again in June 08 for the Keepsake Box class. Lonnie and his wife run a great school--their hospitality is tremendous, and you will learn a ton in one week. When you figure the cost of the class ($895) with the amount of time you are there--9 hours a day for 6 days, it's really a tremendous value. Don't forget that there are only 9 students in each class, and the focus is on hand tools, layout, technique, etc. You get the benefit of Lonnie's 30 years of experience all day every day. The shop is well maintained and you have a quality bench to yourself. The power tools are well maintained and are top notch. Lonnie's assistant Jason is there to mill the wood and help out when needed, and Jason's a great guy too. Lonnie's wife sets out a delicious home cooked lunch each day on the dog run porch, plus she keeps a full pot of coffee that puts Starbucks to shame. I drove from Houston, TX to be at the school and will do so again in June. It's a hike for me--1,100 miles one way. The camaraderie with your fellow woodworkers is a great experience. Our class clicked well together and most of us ate together each night. I can't rate Lonnie's school against others because I haven't been, but I imagine it would be hard to beat this experience. I don't think you will be disappointed. But get your registration in soon--it won't take long to sell out the classes. Hope that helps. If you want more detail, email me and I'll answer any questions. Tom

   "Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
1. 
   woodenchicken | Sep 10, 2007 06:02am | #3

   Hi Tom,
   What would you estimate your total cost for the trip. Such as gas, lodging and other cost.
   I live in Houston as well and would like to attend such a class but I have always been unsure about if I could swing it.

1. 
   ctsjr | Sep 10, 2007 06:54am | #4

   I drove from Humble to Nashville on a Saturday, spent the night on bonus points, and then drove to Dandridge on Sunday. Same thing on the trip home--Saturday after class was out, I drove to Nashville, spent the night on bonus points and then drove to Humble on Sunday. I was privileged to stay for free at the Comfort Inn in Dandridge on a friend's bonus points, so that was at least a $500 savings there. The Super 8 in Dandridge is $40/night for Lonnie's students--several guys were staying there, although they were not complimentary of the hotel, but you are basically there to sleep. I never added up my gas expenses, but I drive a Honda Accord and filled up three times going and three times coming home at ~$40/fillup. Lunch was provided in the tuition and dinner is what you want to spend. The wood kit from Good Hope Hardwoods for the Woodworking Essentials class was $265 for black walnut, but several of us talked it over and you're obviously paying for convenience there. All in all, it's probably around $2,000 or a little less with everything added in. It was a great experience, and I'm going back in June. My wife gets major brownie points for letting me go--she knows it's good for me. I budget and plan for it all year, and use my plastic as little as possible. You also need to figure in any tools that you may have to buy on the tool list. Get the recommended tools and don't substitute--you'll only delay the inevitable. I came with an inferior set of chisels and went home with a set of Lie-Nielsens, but I got a 10% discount for being a student at Lonnie's school :) If you can swing it financially, it's a great trip and a great experience. The tuition is a great value. The class was made up of guys like me who tend to be budget conscience, as well as folks for whom money was not a problem. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"

2. 
   mapleman | Sep 11, 2007 05:52am | #13

   Tom,

   I'm glad to see your experience at Lonnie's school was favorable - I signed up for the woodworking essentials class in early July of '08, and the 18th century carving class in September of '08. Hurricane Katrina forced me to cancel a class in '05, and I hadn't been able to get in since. So I overnighted my registration the day I got his email.

   The keepsake box looks to be a nice project - I never noticed it before. I hope to take the blanket chest and dressing table class next year - funds permitting.

   Do you remember what the tool list was for woodworking essentials? Lonnie emailed to say he would forward the lumber and tool list after the first of the year, and I would like to get a peek to see how much I will need that I don't have. If you would rather not post here you can email me at home: [email protected]

   Thanks,

   Lee

   Edited 9/10/2007 11:17 pm by mapleman

3. 
   chalky | Sep 13, 2007 03:42am | #14

   Got in the woodworking essentials class.  Could you send me a list of the tools that I'll need.  Got a birthday coming up and Christmas isn't too far away would give my kids and wife some idea for presents.  Thanks for your help.   [email protected]

1. 
   ctsjr | Sep 13, 2007 03:54am | #15

   It's on the way. Smart move--that's what I did last year. Santa brought me the Veritas Bevel Up Smoother. What a great thing to find under the tree on Christmas morning. Have a great time. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"

2. 
   mapleman | Sep 13, 2007 05:25am | #16

   Hey Chalk,

   When are you going? I'll be there the second week of July (7th-12th) and the last week of Sept (22nd-26th)

   Lee

1. 
   KelsoChris | Sep 13, 2007 08:06am | #17

   Are the woodworks seminars the same as the the classes offered by "THE WOODWORKING SHOWS"?  I have attend a seminar at the annual St. Louis Show each year for the last five years and have learned a lot every year.  These classes aren't hands on but the speakers are ussually knowledable and more than ready to answer questions. I have seen seminars by Marc Adams, Lon Schliening, Michael Fortune and Graham Blackburn and have been rewarded with more in knowledge than by anything bought on the show floor.  I hear that the Sycamore Woodworking School and Kelly Mehlers school are very good as well.

1. 
   mapleman | Sep 13, 2007 03:17pm | #18

   Chris,

   The classes at Lonnie Bird's are hands on - you bring your own tools and lumber and complete projects while you are there.

   The woodworking shows haven't passed close to where I live in years - I wish I had some of the opportunities to get to some of the seminars by the people you mentioned.

   Lee

2. 
   chalky | Sep 13, 2007 11:44pm | #21

   mapleman,

   I'll be there March 17-22.  Your taking two classes?  How far do you have to travel?

1. 
   mapleman | Sep 14, 2007 04:13am | #22

   Hey Chalky,

   I wanted to take a March class, but I have to tie one of the trips into a family vacation of sorts. Thus my decision to wait until my 16 year old daughter was out of school for the summer.

   I'm in Southern Mississippi, so I think the drive is about 8-9 hours tops.

   Cheers,

   Lee

3. 
   Jfrostjr | Sep 10, 2007 06:17pm | #6

   I just returned from 2 weeks at Marc Adams with Michael Fortune. What a wonderful experience. Shop equipment (all Saw Stops, Oneway lathes, multiple jointers, planers and router tables) and shop assistants are great. Wife Suzy prepares the meals.

   I've had eight classes over the years and all have been winners. (I don't consider myself a 'carver' - but I can't blame on the instruction.)

   Check out their offerings.

   Frosty

   "I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922

4. 
   Jimma | Sep 10, 2007 06:55pm | #8

   Your question seems to be more about Lonnie Bird's school than an open one about schools in general, so few people are responding. However, if you look in the back section (the "classified" section) of most woodworking magazines you'll find many schools listed under "instruction" or other headings and their locations are usually stated. This would help with the travel issue. Also, you need to be aware that many of the woodworking notables teach at more than one school in a season and aren't exclusively at just one. Some schools have a variety of courses available at several levels of interest ranging from, say, a weekend course in marquetry to a nine-month intensive. If you're asking about a general woodworking course that deals with the basics, there are several very good ones with one- to two-week or longer programs. If I were you and travel is an issue, I'd start with the geography question and make curriculum inquiries of the closest schools, then ask here and elsewhere about specific venues. There are a number of really good choices out there.

   As for Woodcraft courses, it's all about the instructors who are generally recruited from local craftsmen. Some are great -- some aren't -- and they are usually teaching a rather narrow subject, like how to build a kitchen cabinet, or how to sharpen. Sometimes a nationally known figure like Scott Phillips or Roy Underhill is invited to teach at Woodcraft, but those appearances are quite limited in scope and don't fill the need for a hands-on program of broad scope and they're relatively expensive in my opinion. I don't quite agree that books can be a substitute for a lot of woodworking skills, however, as years of experience usually come with a warm-body teacher. In any case --good luck!

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/10/2007 12:07 pm ET by Jimma

1. 
   9619 | Sep 10, 2007 10:18pm | #9

   Jim,
   why didn't you tell him about the course you took on how to make a rocking chair?
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   Jimma | Sep 10, 2007 10:51pm | #10

   Well, that was an apprenticeship on a single topic and not a school.

2. 
   chalky | Sep 10, 2007 11:09pm | #12

   My question pertained specifically to Lonnie Birds school.  I don't mind the travel as long as I'm going to walk away with the know how to use the things they profess to teach.  I definitely did not get that at  Woodcraft.  I came home with a nice cabinet but with little knowledge to duplicate one in my shop.  Thanks for the info

5. 
   mbaker00 | Sep 13, 2007 07:53pm | #19

   I would also like to give an endorsement of the Lonnie Bird school of woodworking.  I was forntunate enough to take one of the essentials classes about 4 years ago and have been going back ever since.  Lonnie is an excellent teacher who really wants students to learn skill in addition to leaving with a project.  You should go with a mind to learn from Lonnie's experience as a craftsman and designer.  While taking home a finished project is great, taking away skill that you will use in all your future projects is more important.  You will not be concentrating on power tool use but mostly hand tools use.  The quality of my work has increased greatly in knowing how to properly use hand tools. 

   Over the years I've also taken his Spice Cabinet class, Blanket Chest class, Side Chair class, Carving class, Turning class, in October will take the Hanging cupboard class, and next year the two week Tall Case Clock class.  I've spent about half of my 4wks of vacation a year at Lonnie's school.  I have been to other schools, Mark Adams and Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine.  Lonnie's school remains my favorite.

   I think there must be very few people who could be dissapointed with the classes there since they always fill, an nobody in anyclass I've attend ever seemed dissapointed.  I think there are certian personality types that would be less likely to enjoy his type of teaching.  That being somebody who is set in their way of doing the required task and unwilling to take helpfull critical advise.  Obviously some people stuggle more than others in fine / detailed work, but I have observed how patient Lonnie can be in trying to get those people back on track when they make mistakes to try and keep them in the game and learning.

   Lonnie is running a business to support himself and his family, but considering all the cost of running the school, insurance, paying his help Jason, I think the classes are very well priced for the quality of instruction, small class size, quality of instruction and quality of the skill you have on leaving. 

   FIY,

   Mike Baker

   Winston-Salem, NC

1. 
   ctsjr | Sep 13, 2007 09:27pm | #20

   MikeI wholeheartedly agree with you, especially regarding Lonnie's patience and ability to teach all skill levels. My Woodworking Essentials class last year fell a bit behind due to the overall inexperience of the students, myself included. Lonnie never lost patience, encouraged us and we got through it all just fine. I never ceased to be amazed at how he answered all of my questions, and never once made me feel like I was asking a stupid question. BTW, he is putting together a distance learning class for the Pennsylvania slant top secretary. You will go to class for a week to begin and get instruction, and he'll send you home with a full set of plans, a DVD of him building the thing (that's got to be worth the price of admission right there) and email support when you have questions. You go home to finish the project in your shop. I am gearing myself towards taking this class. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"