Another bench complete. Over thirty years and always “just one more and that’s the last”. Several available commercially were looked at and once again they came up short on personal criteria. Again spared the joy of off-loading a monster off the back of a common carrier.
The $1600 one was nice. Only 1 1/2″ to tall and it has a tail vise. Not a fan of tail vises. The $900 bench has a tool tray down the center. Don’t care to have a tool tray, especially down the center. Says it is securely anchored with butt joints re-inforced with bolts and toggles. Someone may actually believe that, just not one of them. Too tall also. The $600 Scandinavian entry was not long enough, narrow and too tall. The tooth-pick thin legs, strechers and top gave it a chic look. I’m sure it had a label somewhere that said, Don’t Lean On Me Too Heavy. Just wasn’t to be seen in the picture.
Didn’t really new a new bench. But hard not to stare at the 4 boxes of 6″ to 10″ maple scraps. And then the 30′ long Doug Fir beam re-covered from a warehouse in down-town Atlanta. Built just after the Civil War. The scraps and beam were recovered from “death row” where they awaited their final fate. Someone’s trash to be burned or buried in the land-fill.
The TS, jointer, glue, hand planes and scrapers appeared ready for the long lamination journey. Paitiently they worked with the “ole man” that turned 56 today. They knew their purpose and they preformed with admiration. A touch on the stones occasionally, but without the slightest burp otherwise.
What results could one achieve attempting to “turn a pumpkin into a golden carriage”. Condemned material to be joined and blended into a functional and reliable tool. The opinion of the results will vary with the reviewer. That is under-standable and human nature. The “ole man’s” tired eyes see it one way, others may see if from another perspective.
The results are a cheap Economy Work-Bench. $270 with the vise hardware costing $200 of that. Four point clamping and wide panel and stock clamping between the screws on the end vise. Clamping for almost the entire perimeter of the bench. Exact height, width and lenght to match comfort and space management requirements. A bench that one doesn’t have to compromise to anothers design of what they felt was best for persoanl style and needs.
The results are not “Beauty”. The results are “Muscle and Versatility”. Joined, jointed and glued “blue-collar scrap” in a three-point stance waiting for the whistle to blow to signal WORK. Under-neath the muscular belly a small label is attached. One that is not seen often anymore. One that some sorely miss. It is short and to the point. Simplicity at it’s best.
MADE WITH PRIDE IN THE U.S.A.
Just wondered what everyones elses criteria for their bench is. Do you prefer to build or buy. Beauty or Beast???
Warning: Due to graphic nature of condemned trash blended to form by a hobbyiest, viewer discretion is advised. As permanent emotional injury could result, click at your own risk. ha..ha..
Replies
Sarge,
My, my, my...look at what the birthday boy gots....really pretty. Is the field maple with two strips of oak for the dog holes?...nice idea The vises look great..the whole thing looks great. Congratulations on both ...the birthday and the workbench...
BG
Correct on the field and dog-hole strips. The pics came out lousy. Richard prompted me to post a pic in another thread as he was thinking of using Doug Fir base. It has been over-cast here in Atlanta for two days. I knew better, but shot this morning in over-cast. Next bright day is probably Sunday. May re-shoot as I was dis-appointed with the light. I'm not a photo-grapher and the little camera I use shows it. I have gotten better shots with it though when I can open the doors and the sun is shining.
Thanks....
sarge..jt
Sarge,
I think the pictures look fine...it also confirms the suspicions I have had about your shop for some time now....it turns into a cocktail lounge at night..that is why it's so clean..:-) I was reading your other comments and very much agree that having another roll up table for support to your workbench is very handy. Another very useful addition is a small draw hanging on the underside of the workbench top..I keep my measuring tools in the draw along the dogs, bits of sandpaper, pencils, etc.(pkg of oatmeal cookies)...really handy.
BG
You catch on quick. They closed the "Gold Club" here in Atlanta. Those that were left un-employed had no where to go. Will have the Gold Poles installed on the bench by weeks end. ha..ha..
Got to hurry though, have a commitment for the 400 toys for needy kids. Santa puts the only dead-line on me that I have to worry about. We got four van loads of scrap already sorted and ready to go Monday week. We got some new volunteers and there are twelve of us this year. Hopefully that might cut the hours down. I hope, my wife has put in a requisition for a new break-fast nook table. Looks like I'm going to be moon-lighting for several months. Well, whats new. A cup of coffee and a clear mind will devise a plan. Worked so far. <G>
sarge..jt
Hey Sarge,
Did you ever make the breakfast nook table? I have a project to build a kitchen L-shaped booth in the near future. If you made the table can ya post a picture? thanksRegards,
Buzzsaw
I have an L shaped built in bench in my kitchen. I'll post some pics later.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Tom,
I would love to see it. This is exactly what we want to build in our kitchen. In fact, I have built a prototype on a smaller scale before I tackle the big job... Regards,
Buzzsaw
Here are a couple of pics of the breakfast area and one of my bench. I have some better pics of the bench in another thread. If you are interested I'll find them.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
Hi Tom,
Nice pic's. I like the work bench, is this something that you made with a plan or was it made to fit your need,s. The bench that I have was rescued from a old OLD damp basement and if I can get more than 15 min. a month to chat with you all I will post a pic or two of it. At this time it is holding a truck load of cherry and walnut from touching the floor at least untill I can get more than 15 min. a month to be in my shop. I hope this message find's everyone well and dusty. Rick.
The bench was made to fit my needs. I based the top loosely on Franks Klaus' design. The main portion of the top is made from an old section of bowling alley. Most of the bench was made from lumber left over from other projects so I really don't have much invested in it. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Tom,
I will say again ,Nice. I have read threads in the past about the pro's and con's on bowling alley part's, mostly con's how was your experiance.Now as far as left over lumber, this I have more than covered. My darlin Inga sent one of my attic stashes packing to the basement. when I get my bench cleared off, guess it will go there. Also are the smaller drawers on top very deep, what was your thought's about these. Thank's Rick
The bowling alley was a bear to work with. they are not glued together, only nailed. I ended up prying the whole thing apart, keeping everything in order, removing any nails that would be in the way for my joinery, and the reassembling with glue and the original nails for alignment. Took about four hours to do and I'll probably do another that way since I have some more lane peices.
The small drawers at the top of the bench are almost full depth. They were designed as my "hardware store". Each drawer is divided into 5-6 compartments and I keep screws and misc hardware and supplies in there. I love it. Every thing is readily available and if I am building something that requires a bunch of screws (pretty rare but it does happen) I can pull a drawer out and take it to the work.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Hi Tom,
Great idea on the drawers. I picked up a very old drawer unit that my Father-in-law had in his art studio, it was used at a court house for maps ,so the drawers are around 36" deep by 48" wide by 4" high inside. I by cutting away two upper drawer spaces was able to lower it enough to use as my central work station. Now as for the drawers I have not yet found a use for all of them. There are 14, 7 on one side, 7 smaller one's on the other side. I am however still looking for a nice top for this monster. At this time it is two 3/4 sheets of ply. I dont think bowling alley's are all that easy to find around me. Have a good weekend . Rick
Tom,
Nice bench, I'm sure you'd have room for that gun rack right under the tail vise...;?D
Cheers,
Ray
Thanks for the pics Tom. Do the seats fold up for storage underneath? That's what I plan on doing because we don't have a lot of storage in our kitchen and at least we could put the kids boots, etc under there. ANy more pics of the bench would be great. Thanks again..Regards,
Buzzsaw
One other question, Tom, what are the dimensions of the seats? I'm a little up in the air about seat width and what would be good for all...Regards,
Buzzsaw
The bench is 18"h and the seat is 14" to where the backrest starts. The seat could be a little deeper but I wanted it to be comfortable for kids as well as adults. There is storage under the bench which my wife loves.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Tom,
So is it a 12" board up to where the piano hinge starts and then a 2" board to attach to? Or did you join some boards to make the seat? The reason I ask is because it is pretty easy to find the 12" wide boards for the seats but anything wider is difficult. Also, what type of wood is this? Looks too nice for pine. We were thinking of building a triangular table that would fit right inside the L so that the whole structure would make a triangle. This is almost exactly what I was planning on building. Thanks for the post and I may be asking more questions when I get around to building the real thing. My prototype (small scale version) is almost exactly like this. Thanks again...Great Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw,
I bought a couple of church pews many years ago....great wood, very comfortable, really cheap. Closing in the base is great for storage but also kinda takes away a place often used for the feet. It doesen't look as nice as Tom's, but my wife put plastic baskets under the seats for storage....and they are sloped so the foot feels nice too.
My key point is church pews are cheap, well shaped (in many cases) and can be easily modified and refinished....just a thought...
PS. if your lucky, there should be lots of good gum under that church pew....
Edited 2/13/2004 9:24:44 AM ET by BG
BG,
Cool idea. So far I've heard recently on this forum about bowling alley wood and now church pews. Interesting. I was thinking of also boxing in under the seats but having it angled so the back of the legs have someplace to go. I have been noticing that I, as well as my kids, do this and I want it to be a comfortable place to hang out...Thanks. Regards,
Buzzsaw
It is actually made mostly from maple plywood with an edging aplied. The back and panels are 1/4 maple ply set in a solid maple frames. No wood movement issues to deal with that way. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Thanks.. Maple plywood huh? I really like maple and will have to look into maple plywood. Thanks..
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Mr. B. Saw,
In my neck of the woods, If I go to my local lumber yard or the Home Depot I can always find a nice sheet or two of maple ply mixed in with the birch. One just has to do a bit of lookin around. I really like it also. Rick
Mr A Designs,
Maple plywood may be easy for you to distinguish among the Birch plywood for people like you who know the difference. I am fairly new to this and I am currently working with maple for replacing table tops for a coffee table and 2 end tables. I'm sure the maple plywood doesn't look like this maple. Anyway, maybe I can find a lumber yard around here (in southern NH) that sells the Maple plywood. Thanks for your post.. Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz
From early Oct. till Xmas was building donation toys as a group of us do each year. The breakfast nook table is on the back-burner till spring. My wife had shifted priority to a large crochet cabinet. I have never heard of one, so I have to design it to fit the needs of what she wants it to do.
She had her gall bladder removed last week, so I am mostly confined to the upstairs till she recovers. The table I will build is not a build in L, but a standard free-standing 42" or 48" round or oval.
I think that the pics Tom will post will give you some great ideas. Tom is down the road from me in Douglasville, Ga. and I meet him at The Atlanta WW Show last year. He had three peices entered in the show with the Ga. WW Guild and won first prize for each. As I have stated here before, he is a very talented up-and-coming craftsman that will go very far with this craft. He's the best I've seen come along locally in a long time.
BTW, ask him to add a couple of pics of his work-bench! It's about the size of a Chevy C-2500 dually. However, it doesn't have a "gun-rack" as most southern work-benches. That's cause Tom is from Mass. and came down and snagged one of our local beauties. I didn't tell him, but the "gun-rack-less" is a dead give-away he isn't a native local. ha.. ha....
Good luck with the kitchen encounter...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 2/12/2004 10:53:49 AM ET by SARGE
Thanks Sarge...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz
Just a closing thought! If you really want to "impress her and guest", you might consider making the kitchen build-in with power tilt seats. ha.. ha....
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sounds like a plan....Regards,
Buzzsaw
Wow. That's a serious bench. I like the visual solidity a lot. Pretty doesn't only mean thin and lithe - it also means tough and capable looking.
I'm with you - I'd rather build. I am a woodworker. I learned new skills working on a huge heavy scale. It's MY bench!
After four months, it has worked out great. The only issue - the twin screw vise is slipping and I'm going to have to go into it to figure out why (and fix it).
Pretty soon I'll make a drawer to go between the stretchers for planes, spokeshaves, etc.
By the way, it has a few dings now and some colorful acrylic paint spots!
Edited 10/10/2003 11:33:11 PM ET by telemiketoo
tm
Nice bench. I agree about being super stable and I like clean simple lines. And yes, you are the one that preforms the surgery. You should be able to dictate the measurements and clamping capabilities. I think the dings, bruises and stains add character. Some of the benches I admire most are old ones that you know from their looks have served well. Back in the days before they ever saw much finish. You know, about the time I graduated HS. We had a dinosaur for a mascot if that tells you about when. ha..ha..
I prefer drawers or storage to be elsewhere. I have a 34" x 54" assembly table within 3' of the work-bench. If I needed extra storage ( I fortunately have ample already) I would add drawers to that table on both sides as it pretty deep. I like the bottom clear to sit something temporarily as I use it for what I'm doing up top. I love a tool tray about 2 days a week. The other 5 days I hate them as they get in my way and clutter does accumulate.
Thanks for the reply and the pic. I hope others post a pic as I'm curious as to what their thoughts on the bench are..
Regards...
sarge..jt
tm
Sorry, forgot to mention. If the twin screw is slipping, check the shear pin and the skew release on the follower screw. Has to be something simple. I doubt that a chain link is "jumping tooth". If it did, most likely the chain would jump track altogether.
Would appreciate what you find on that point. Would be useful in the future to avoid or eliminate the problem before it becomes one.
Thanks...
sarge..jt
That is a mighty fine looking bench - beauty or beast, well, I guess if it serves your purpose, it doesn't really matter much, does it? I'm about to embark on only my 4th bench, so I don't have the experience to carry much weight. I've seen almost every bench in FWW and many of them posted here, and they all have something that I either hadn't thought of (and wish I had) or have something that I think "I'd never use THAT" (but probably would).
One of my favorite benches was made by (I think) a fellow named Don McKinley - has the "imitation Emmert" (modified Record) vise. Anyway, I guess there's no such thing as the perfect bench (is there?), but it sure is fun trying to figure out what it might entail and then build it! I think the benches that get my attention the most are those that say ... simplicity. Yep, even Toshio Odate's benches - I just don't think my back & knees would survive.
But, back to your question - height adjustment would be cool. Of course stability (steadiness & material characteristics) is certainly important; adaptability to any task (a tall order, I know).
I've never had what you'd call a "beautiful" bench, but they all kept me "coming back for more" (so to speak) and that's, I think, the important thing.
end of story ...
and again, nice bench Sarge.
Don
I don't care if you've only built one bench instead of 3. Of course your experience counts. And so does your opinion. We all have opinions. Everyone's is just as important as anyone elses. It would be rare to see two exactly alike.
Like the various benches you've seen, one can pick up good points from others theories and opinions to strengthen their own. As you stated, nothing is perfect and as Sam Maloof told me once; no-one knows all their is to know about WW. Thats why an exchange of info is vital to keep the craft alive and for each to grow personally in skill range.
I also like the Emmert Pattern-Makers vise. Pattern-making is sort of a thing of the past with the modern molds and computer methods used now. But those vises are extremely useful especially with tapered stock. Highland Hardware has a spin-off built in Indonesia (maybe India). It's about $200 compared to the Veritas spin-off. The problem I see was a tip-off from the guys at Highland. They dis-assembled one for spare parts as parts are hard to come by. If one really wanted one, maybe the extra bucks for the Veritas is not such a harder economic hit in the "long range picture".
I saw Odate at Highland years ago in seminar. How those guys work so low is beyond me. I'm in decent shape for the age, but that requires dexterity that I don't have anymore. One too many parachute jumps and downhill ski races have taken the toll on the knees. I knew I should have quit on the one just before the knee in each case blew out. ha..ha..
Thanks for the post and comp... Don't be a stranger. The shop welcome mat and light is always left on.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Beautiful bench. What a feat of frugality. You ought to do an article for FW.
Boss
Thank you for the compliment. I took a que from you, Charles and some of the plane guys and re-introduced myself to my hand-tools recently. Starting to get the feel back. After that bench stock was surface prepared on the machines, the hand tools finished the job. I will still use both, but am glad to get them back in my hands where they belong. It just seems right.
Don't know about any articles for FW. I think they look for something a little more refined. I am very content to be a "long-time hobbyist" and love to represent that factor of the craft. I have always believed that all, no matter what level have something to contribute. I learn something new every day. As Maloof told me, "nobody knows it all and they never will". But that doesn't stop each of us from plugging away trying too. We will probably never reach he finish line in our lifetime, but we can have a "h*ll of a good time trying to get there". ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge,
Thanks for the photos of the bench. It's GREAT! I love the contrasting wood and the way you have carried it through even to the vise faces. I'm still quite new to this and I appreciate your focus on being a "work" bench. The fact that you made it largely with scrap material must make the effort much more satisfying. I look forward to the day that I have space enough to do a similar one.
I'll attach a couple shots of my first bench. It's very small due to space limitations, and has a purchased top. I needed it so that I could plane small table tops that I like to make. I added the leg vise just because I'm intrigued with them, I guess. I haven't used it yet so don't know if I'll like it.
Sarge, thanks again for sharing with us. Remember though that some of us out here are even older than you, if you can believe that. Keep up the great work.
Richard
Edited 10/11/2003 9:37:02 AM ET by Richard
Richard
Excellent job. If you are only going to do small items, what you have is fine. It's just a mini-version of a big bench. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Your first, huh.. Now I noticed that you used a bridle joint on the top strechers. Noticed that that cross runner sitting in the bridle actually sits about 1/8" to 1/4" of an inch above the base. Your first, huh. ha..ha..
Now what that does is allow the cross runner to expand the length through the bridle and width wise from base to the bottom of the top itself. If the base or top moves with moisture changes, it allows each to act independently of each other (free-float) and reduce a lot of structural stress that might occur with that movement. I picked up the idea from Ian Kirby and use it with the modified Hammaker&Schlemmer cabinet and piano-maker base I have been using for years. Your first, huh. <G>
I also like leg vises. I may add one to the right front leg behind the twin. It allows you to get long stock clamped between the front vise and tail vise for shooting an edge with a hand plane. You could accomplish the same by securing the trailing end with a wide Quick clamp across the table. I like you, am intrigued by tail vises. It gives you some versatility with your table. In WW as with clamps, you never can have enough.
Keep the flame burning and glad to know someone out there is older that me. I feel better already. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Great looking bench Sarge. Curious why you don't like tailvises though. I love mine and would never have a bench without one again. It would have to be the open style like the one on my new bench. I'm not crazy about the tailvise on my woodsmith (plan #50) bench.
I couldn't figure out how to put a previously uploaded file in her so I just paste a link to the thread with my bench pics in it for those who may be interested.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=11020.5
Edited 10/11/2003 10:16:11 AM ET by Tom
Tom
Let me re-phrase. It's not that I don't like tail-vises, it's the fact that traditionally they are on almost all Euro benchs you can purchase as I know of no U.S. manufacturer at the moment. (Even Ulmia went down in 2002, but were bought by a holding Co. and are currently producing). The tail vise is a great invention, it just doesn't give me the versatility of the twin-screw. If I had your size shop and length bench, I would plant one over on the rear left corner. I would also add a Pattern-Makers vise for tapered and canted stock on the opposite end of the twin.
So for my style, shop space and versatility I chose the twin over the tail because it gives me more range of flexibility. I won't mention that back in the wood-rack room on one of the other benches there is a tail vise mounted and ready for that special occasion when I decide it it the best suited for a particular job. If I told all, BG and ToolDoc will catch wind and harass me. Life is difficult enough just having a teen-ager. ha..ha..
Let me add for the folks that read this. Your (Tom W) is one of the finest up and coming young WW's I have seen in a long while. I have seen his work at the Atlanta WW Show. His bench is one of the top 20 I have seen in over 30 years and that includes some old benches that are now Smithsonian quality.
So.. take that "tail-vise man". ha..ha..
Have a great week-end and hope to see ya soon...
sarge..jt
Sarge,
A valiant attempt at using reclaimed wood. I applaud your effort!
However, I would hate for you to have to keep that "hideous collection of old wood" in your nice and clean shop. Therefore, I will arrange for you to ship the bench to me for proper disposal! :-)
Outstanding! And congrats!
RR
RR
Thanks... I had one of my Cosmopolitan lady freinds tell me that taking something that was to be thrown away and making something useful from it is called "Tramp Art". I love to work with scraps and junk to see what can be done if you design carefully. My wife just calls me "cheap". Somewhere in there the real truth lies.
Bring a truck-load of good hard-wood scrap. You can take this one and I'll just build another. I still got a few good ideas for modification after this one. My next scrap project is restoring an old German U-Boat to look like a California style "Woody". Yeah, right! Well, maybe.... ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge, what can I say that hasn't been said already?!!!! You must have posted just seconds after I shut down the computer last night....
Great bench, beautiful vise, admirable work (and frugality, ha ha). Long live that wood. Thanks for posting all the pics!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Thanks... I waited and watched for your lights to go out b-4 posting. Wanted it to be a surprise. Well, I was the one surprised as I found your shop door locked. Guess there will be no "walnut scrap" projects in the near future. ha..ha..
Hope all is going well with "plans". I've been pretty busy lately with the project. Got lots to do b-4 Xmas also, so I have to post late nite. Miss harassing you guys.. < G >
Hghest Regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge,
Great bench. Fantastic job. Congratulations. One thing I like about this bench that I believe I have seen in an earlier photo, not these photos - is you have like a "whaleback keel" stretcher running down the center underneath the top. That thing must be incredibly, incredibly strong. I prefer the beast to the beauty in benches - stability and strength is everything.
So are you going to be driving a truck on this one to test it? Don't go softballing the strength testing on us, Sarge. Kidding,...
Congrats again.
Ed
Ed
You are correct in the pic from the other thread. It has a 3 " x 3" whale-back keel. The legs, all three stretchers and cross-ties are all 3" x 3". The top is 3 1/4". I rabbeted the inner edge of the bottom stretchers to accept the Doug Fir cross stock that makes up the bottom shelf. The base feet are 4" tall and 5" wide. The legs are through morticed through them also. All joints are hard-wood pinned through mortice and tenons hand-cut with a framing chisel. The mortices are 1 1/2" x 3". The top cross ties are bridle jointed and stand 1/8" above the base legs. This allows the top to rest and free-float on the cross-ties and the whale-back keel you noticed in the other pic. Allows the base to move independently of the re-inforced top and vice-versa.
This is the top I drove the Chevy C-10 over. Boss aroused my concern with the finger-joints in the core, so I decided to put adjustable ramps up and drive over it length-wise and cross-wise. It's not a concern anymore. Sometimes you just don't know what will happen till somebody takes a chance and trys it. That be me. ha..ha..
After adding the top, I had my teen-ager and 5 friends try to detect over-all strenght. I put that router mat you lay down for traction under the base feet. Told them if they could slide it or make it wiggle I would give them $20 each. Ended up with 6 frustrated and still broke teens. Knew it was battle-worthy at that point. Still have to wait out the seasons on movement, but even a $2000 Ulmia moves. I got $70 in the base as the vises are transferrable. I have a feeling movement will be minimal as I had the over-all moisture content at about 10% and disigned in area to contract and expand. I built tight as it was summer. Reading about 10% to 12%. I have never seen any of my other home-built benches and bases go below 8% as I can keep the shop fairly consistent in humidity. All allowed in the way I originally disigned. The winding sticks have confirmed that so far. Time will tell.
Will add a pic of the keel so anyone that missed that thread will understand what you refer too.
Regards for the week-end...
sarge..jt
It's a beautiful piece of craftmanship.
Structurally, I have one question. What does the top stretcher do? Once the very substantial top is attached to the two sides, doesn't the top stretcher become redundant?
Mark
Thanks for the compliment. I will attach a pic of the base again so you don't have to scan back to find it. Look at the base carefully. It will reveal the role the top stretchers play in the over-all scheme. I am not a great teacher, but hopefully I can explain this in writing. It would be easier for me to point it out in person. That way any immediate question that arose from the explanation could be addressed.
The base and the top are individual components. Notice that I have added a "whale-boat keel" (middle runner) down the center on top for additional strenght and it also allows the 26" wide top additional structual support lenght-wise to help counter middle sag. Where would this "keel" attach if there were no end cross stretchers?
The top could be attached directly to the legs, but for structual and expansion purposes I use cross-stretchers. The "keel" and top stretchers are jointed into one. In essence this gives me a 3 piece over-all unit. The top, the H-shaped top stretchers attached to "keel" and the base (consisting of base feet, legs and bottom shelf.
All are built very sturdy with through mortice and tenons. All are independently strong in themselves but will be joined to form a even more sturdy team of components. Here is how that happens.
The base stands alone. The top of the legs have bridle joints (slot mortices) to accept the H cross stretchers and "keel". The H is dropped into the saddle (bridle joint). It can be pinned with a harwood dowel or left to just sit as it can't escape the bridle. The top (it weights about 160 lbs.) is now placed on top of the other two components. Five hard-wood dowels have been attached to the H sit 1" above it. They have been shaped like a bullet point on the exposed end above the surface. The top is now added and the five meshed holes on it's underside co-incide with the exposed bullet shaped exposed dowels.
What this gives you is an independently strong base, and independently strong H and a independently strong top that form a team. Each have strength, but act together to create an even more sturdy unit. Each have the capability of independent wood movement vertically and horizonally without shifting any significant stress to the other components.
The top won't budge as it has been tested. But it will move from expansion and contraction. The kind of movement you can't see physically. The 3 components I have designed take that into account and allow for it independently without giving up over-all strenght to the team. That's the "big picture".
As I said, I'm not a great communicator. If you have additional questions, I will answer to best of my ability.
Regards for a great day...
sarge..jt
Sorry for the miscommunication. It's not the side stretchers I was questioning, but what you refer to as the middle "keel." Is there really a danger of sag with such a hefty top? If so, that is the answer to my question. Thanks for the long and complete explanation.
Mark
Was just going to edit to say that my pic didn't show. Any time you have that much mass glued up, even face to face there is alwasy a chance of movement in any direction. I try to eliminate as much error as possible before it happens. It might not, but I try to build everything industrial strenght for that possible occasion that it could. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Well, if the military ever needs a platform to store Abrams tanks above ground, you've got a lock on the contract. It's a beautiful bench.
'Tention on deck!
I like how you recycled those scraps for the vise. Even more impressed at the cost of the whole thing.
Maybe one day, I'll improve my rickety bench.
TUF
Thank you sir. The front vise is laminated 3/4" strips of red oak flooring recovered from a house being torn down. The tail is 5/4 maple downfall I did buy at $.90 a bd. ft. Just trued it up and laminated it also. I angle the inner face of front jaws on all vises at 2* to 3* degrees so the top tip of the jaw makes contact before the portion underneath. This will give you much more positive grip power without having to over-tighten the jaws. Not only more grip, but it will lengthen the life of the Acme screw.
I'm sure the rickety bench won't require too much to get it sturdy. If you ever decide to build another one, they are simple to do. The bad news is it requires a lot of patience and hard work. The good news is the results will justify both.
Thanks again and have a great evening...
sarge..jt
Mark
Thank you again for the kind words. Your comment leads me to believe I may have missed my call in life. Perhaps I should have been a defense designer. ha..ha..
Oh well, things worked out OK anyway.
Have a great evening...
sarge..jt
SARGE: Happy belated Birthday.. you old Rascal.. Verry nice job on the Bench.. But then again from you I wouldn't expect anything less.. I have been wondern what you have been up to in the ole Tool Shed..
Take Care my Friend & Hope you have many more joyus Birthdays...
ToolDoc
Proud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
Doc
I wanted one made of walnut, but FG has installed double locks, an infa-red sensor, hired a security gaurd and picked up a gaurd dog for the shop. About the only option left is to repel down to the roof from a chopper and go through the roof with our Stihl chain-saws. With all that walnut she has stashed, we'll at least need a "Chinook" helicopter to lift it out.
Whatever happened to the simple life of the 50's, 60's and 70's? Seems like "walnut theft" is going the way of "moon-shining".... Out! ha..ha..
Thanks Doc.. Good to hear from you and hope all is well.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge: HMMMM if we go & lift FGs walnut will be known as "The over the Hill Walnut Nappers" ??? LMAO..... Hey whats a "Old" Guy like you doing up at 2:30 AM ?? should be in bed dreamin of when you was a young Buck...hehehe...
ToolDocProud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..
A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..
Doc
What's an old guy like me doing up at 2:30 AM?
Sitting in the shop with a cup of coffee dreaming up the next project. I gave up sleeping years ago. Too much down-time. ha..ha..
Have a good day Doc...
sarge..jt
First class work. I agree with BossCrunk's comments about frugality and the article in FW.
Charles
Thank you for the kind compliments. Getting comped by a couple of hand-tool guru's like yourself and Boss is indeed a motivator. I'm starting to get the old touch back and feel comfortable with them again. I have a feeling they will see even more use in the near future.
I have always been frugal. My dad died just before I was 13 and we had to improvise a bit. I just hate to see anything that has worthy potential go to waste. Some look at a stack of shorts and scraps and see trash. I look at the sizes, grain, colors and ponder a possible way to utilize them into a useful function.
Hope your ailing limbs are feeling better. If my memory serves me well, I think you had metioned that you were having some problems with them a month or so ago to someone in a post. Some say I have a pretty good memory and catch detail also. That may or may not be true, I don't remember... ha..ha..
Regards to the hand-tool man...
sarge..jt
Something always hurts these days. You can practically pick the limb and joint of your choice. Too many sports in high school and college are the culprit.
Charles
I think the aches and pains come with the turf. I doubt that any of us at our age don't share some of the same aches. I just accept it and work around it. Don't have a lot of options other-wise. It beats the alternative is the good news. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
I just never thought I'd have to deal with it at the age of 42.
Chass,
That is way too young to have the pain your implying. I played lots of sports too and was doing fairly heavy squats and deadlifts up until early 50's...no one ever mentioned the physiological consequences of just being big...
But if you don't have an underlying disease there are things that can be done. Don't expect one professional in the healthcare system to solve your problems..you need to become the expert.
Charles
I tend to agree with BG. I would get second opinions. My wife went for two years with terrible back pain. Her physicaian insisted it was spasms. He band-aided the pain with prescriptions and even sent her to pain management sessions. I really think he thought her pain was all mental. I had seen her get twinges where she had to lie flat to continue. Sometime in public. He sort of dis-regarded all this as he was the expert.
Finally sent her to an excellent neuro-surgeon. As soon as he diagnosed and removed the ruptured de-generative disk, she hasn't had any trouble since. Medicine is not a cut and dry science. Some listen carefully and trouble-shoot from there. They seem to get the best results in the long term.
Good luck and regards...
sarge..jt
My problems are mostly osteo-arthritis from overuse and injury (collegiate athletics) with a whale of a case of tendonitis in my elbow that's doing better - I'm using mostly wooden planes now.
All the good arthritis drugs tear my stomach to shreds; I'm hanging in with Advil.
Broke down and got a cortisone injection in my elbow yesterday. The improvement is remarkable.
Edited 10/14/2003 2:53:37 PM ET by BossCrunk
Boss
I sometimes wonder if that is not taking place in both my knees as I have torn ligaments in both at this point. I did some damage to the left rotator cuff moving full panels back in Jan. when I was making a custom parts counter for my part-time work. I couldn't raise my left arm above the shoulder. I though it was torn, but it seem somewhat better at this point. Still don't have full range with it though.
I have always had a pretty high threshold for pain. I learned to block it out while in the orient. Between staying extremely busy and refusing to recognize the pain is there, I fare pretty well as I'm in decent shape for an "ole man". ha..ha..
Hope the elbow and joint problems improve. Good idea with the wooden planes, which leads to a question. I have never used a wooden plane. Aware is lighter. In the market for either a shoulder or rabbet. What are your thoughts? Can I preform eithers function with one or the other? Any advantages with wood or metal that would represent any major signifigance? Would apprectiate in-put if you have the time to answer.
Have a good evening...
sarge..jt
I too have arthritis in both of my shoulders, but still find I reach for the hand planes out of habit, never have use a wooden plane. My question is are they easier on the shoulders and is there a brand that you like best?
TIA
Scott T.
They help me a lot, Scott. ECE Primus jointer, jack, and smoother. I still use my L-N scrub, but it's a lightweight plane anyway.
Boss
Thank you much, the two I use the most is the scrub and the jack getting stock ready for the planer, guess I need to at least get the jack and give it a try.
Thank you again for the reply
Scott T.
Sorry I'm joining this discussion late. BEA-YOO-TI-FUL bench. I'm still using the very "homely" one I got with all my tools - pretty sad little table made of "chipboard" on top. I think my first project after Christmas is going to be a "nice" bench. BUT I really agree the best part of yours is the continuation of life for materials that still work. Ain't it wonderful how long wood can serve AND not really have lost it's physical beauty. I would much rather have a bench with some history to it. Is that your own plan???
Rob, Molly & Sadie (the Wonder Labs!) "Hey, mom, wonder if we'd get into trouble for making that a new chew toy!?" It's football time in Tennessee! Go Vols!!!!
TN-LabGirl
Thank you very much for the compliment. I have built 5 personal benches and collaborated on probably another 12 or 15. I've lost track. A lot of locals like my base design. I have built some exclusively for others and helped with others.
I recover a lot of lumber as I seem to have a knack of rescue. I build furniture for womens, veterans and homeless shelters to donate. A group of us also do toys for needy kids for Xmas. All is done with scraps and throw-ways. Have quite a list of donors at this point. Construction, cabinet shops and local WW's. Just hate to see it go to waste.
I don't like to see History destroyed, but that was not the main objective. I have gotten back into hand-planes heavy and that requires an extremely sturdy bench. I just decided to build one that has the custom size and requirements I prefer. All the benches I have built or helped conspire will be around long after the "ole man" is gone. I believe in "building to last".
We have all had the type bench you describe. My first good bench was built in 1973 with face glued 2" x 4"'s face glued after being ripped to 3 1/4". I built it sturdy and haven't dropped that philosophy since. If you do it, take your time and do it right. You won't regret the benfits that will result.
I see you have a lab named Sadie. Co-incidence, my old sheperd Sadie died two week-ends ago. She didn't get to see the bench finished. Had her for 15 years. I have raised 5 dogs in the last 30 years and she was the last. I miss her smile an supervision in the shop.
Regards...
sarge..jt
P>S> Where you at in TN. ?
Sarge and labgirl, I've also got a Sadie dog. A 14 year old mutt that's welded to me. She's in one of the bench photos I put into an earlier thread - I've attached it again.
She's welded to me - a really tough little cur dog, loyal as the day is long. She's hiked and skied with me, and laid between my legs in the canoe, and stood between me and the big cinammon bear, for 13 1/2 years and I'm really gonna miss her when she's gone.
Sorry to hear about your loss Sarge. Dogs are part of the family and a lot better friends than lots of the relatives - they just don't live long enough!
mike
Thanks for the condolence's on Miss Sadie. Yep, I have always been close to animals. You are correct in the fact that they are loyal and you can trust them. I have never had a dog that even told a "white lie". ha..ha..
Sadie is sorely missed, but after having dogs for 30 years I will opt to not get another. When I take on an animal, I have made a commitment "till death do us part". A new puppy might outlast me at this point and I do not feel comfortable with what the fate would be if I am not personally responsible. Just a personal thing. I have seen many that get an animal and then discover that it is a commitment. They cast them aside at that point like worn out shoes. These people don't sit on my list of favorite people.
Have a great day...
sarge..jt
Hi Sarge - I'm in Munford, TN - 20 miles north of Memphis - I have changed my "handle" because I kept getting mistaken for a guy - I was Rob - I'm the one who got the shop full of tools for $1500 from a guy who was retiring. I truly do look forward to building my first personal bench (and if you have a 'sorta' plan you'd be willing to share - I do love the style of the one pictured!)
Regarding the dogs - so very sorry to hear about the loss of your Sadie. When Doug gets up in the morning Molly and Sadie hop up on the bed (like they did pre-Doug) - Molly next to me and Sadie next to my lower legs with her head on the back of my knee. They were with me 5 years ago when Melvin, my previous husband passed away and I don't know what I would have done without them. I agree with the fact that we are with them til death do us part. I would like to recommend to you that you might consider looking at getting an older dog from a Humane Society or shelter (possibly even one who survived and elderly person). There are no guarantees in this life - I expect to survive both Molly and Sadie and don't ever want to be dogless again, but through some unforeseen circumstance that may not be the case. Molly and Sadie are provided for in my will (if Doug doesn't survive me they go to a lifelong girl-friend of mine who I have also left money to provide for their care) - BTW - the will states 'Molly & Sadie' or any pets who may succeed them.It's football time in Tennessee! Go Vols!!!!
Sarge,
You may not outlive the dog???????????????????? What the hell is that crap...you just turned 56...I've been 56 for several months..about eleven months....I have every intention of outliving four or five dogs..unless of course taxes or my wife kill me.
I think the average life span for men now is up around 76....in another ten years it may be up higher. So lets keep that kinda talk outta here...
Okay, wait a minute, now I get it....you want us to let you call an order in first to Woodcraft for those Jorge clamps...cause you ain't got a lot of time left?? nice try.
(kids nowadays)
Edited 10/16/2003 11:13:29 AM ET by BG
Sarge
Happy belated birthday, after seeing your bench I had to do something with mine. After five years it had a crown down the center so today took a srub and smoother to it then put on some wax to make the glue easier to clean off. Nice looking bench you have there.
Scott T.
Scott
Thanks for the birthday wishes and comp on the bench. I generally don't glue on the work-bench. Fortunate enough to have a generous assembly table I built for glue-ups and assembly. I made a core top for it with birch ply. The ply is capped on the edges and the whole thing just slips over the real top on the table. If it really gets to a point of un-flat or trashed from glue, I can just re-cycle it into something useful and replace with another for about $30. Even have some extra ply left over for jigs, etc.
Regards for a great evening...
sarge..jt
Yo, Sarge, you've really outdone yourself this time! Man, that is one beautiful piece of work -- especially considering the "scraps" you started with. You are (again) an inspiration to me--and many others, I bet.
I appreciate the fact that you don't have a decent camera, and shot the pixes on a cloudy day. I ran one of your pictures through PhotoShop to see if I could make it brighter, and this is what I came up with.
BJ
Bert
Thanks very much. I use cheap tools and camera's. My camera lens probably has a good coating of Watco oil at this point. Doesn't do much for the picture but helps bring out the natural beauty of the lens. ha..ha..
Have a great evening and regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge, Happy Birthday! I'm not far behind you, I just turned 51 a couple of months ago. The bench looks great and I liked the story of how you arrived at the design. How much would you charge to make me one just like that? Even though I am a liberal.
Bill Lindau
Bill
Thanks for the birthday wishes and the comp on the bench.
The liberal thing is not a factor. I just call em as I see em without taking a party stance. Some calls might be judged conservative, some liberal, others middle of the road and a few I make as "How the h*ll did he come up with that"? I have learned from the cafe months ago that sometimes we can take those classifications a little too serious. ha..ha..
I have never thought of how much. I know what I have in mine, less labor. As you know, there is a tremendous amount of glue-up time in a bench. I finished it in just under two months dedicating about 3 hours a nite and maybe another 12 on week-ends. There is probably more labor involved than material. Vices aren't cheap and prepping that much wood requires time. I can see why benches are so high.
This is my fifth personal and have done a number for others. I have never thought about what I would charge as that might classify me as professional if I were paid. I am a hobbyiest and content at being that. I would have to do a lot of thinking as to what would be a fair price.
How bout you just bring some wood, scraps, and coffee over to the shop and we'll just just build it together. I'll supply the tools if you don't mind using cheap stuff. We'll just have a h*ll of a good time doing it at "no charge". I'm available right after the Xmas toys for the needy kids. So mark it on your calendar and don't forget the coffee. ha..ha..
Have a good week-end Bill...
sarge..jt
Sarge
You better watch yourself, with that kind of offer I might think about jumping in my motor-home and parking in your driveway for three months just to get a bench like that.
Scott T.
Scott
Bring it on and bring plenty of change for the parking meter installed at the bottom of the drive-way. It's mainly for the in-laws and my wifes relatives from Pennsylvania. If I made the mistake of installing a "pool" they would be here about 10 months a year instead of 2. I'm not as dumb as I might initially appear. ha..ha..
Ahh, come on. You're a WW so parking is No Charge.
I have to go now, my wife just read this over my shoulder. OOUUCCHH! Got any compress bandages? < G >
Regards...
sarge..jt
Hi Sarge,
Awesome bench, in all your bench designs have you ever considered a bench with
retractable wheels? I am working on my first bench and I want to be able to move it around my garage and out to the patio under my shade tree, love to work there. I was thinking of mounting casters like I have on my shop smith. What's your thoughts if any?
Dick38
dick
Why not?...............................
Of my five personal benches I have built, I have always been fortunate enough to have the space for them. I often in spring, summer and fall do work outside, but I have a thick top I drop on two substantial work-horses for that purpose. But they are not sufficient for hand-planing. It takes a very strudily built bench for that.
The other eleven benches for friends all were stationary. One did add casters for mobility latter. I have seen several post from those that have and use them. I do have several bases I built that have non-rotating casters on the side. Just tilt the machine and base back like a hand-truck and roll it where you want. But that won't work for the mass of a full size bench.
Either get a floor model fork-lift jack or go casters. I vote for the casters. ha.. ha.. ha..ha..ha..
BTW, if you do go with the casters I would buy at least 4" wheels rated for 250 lbs each with rubber and not hard plastic. A bit expensive, but I built some bases on casters for crate engines at work and it required them. That work-bench is pretty heavy.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 2/12/2004 11:58:28 AM ET by SARGE
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