Greetings
I need to work on my hand plane skills (bench planes in particular). I had at least two impediments before today, a non-flat bench and a crappy work holding setup. I fixed the flat bench problem today, so now it’s on to work holding.
I don’t have an end vise, and I have a drawer cabinet that’s about 2” below the underside of the top (which is 2.5” thick), which I think rules out holdfasts (?).
I did some internet searching and quickly got a headache. Any advice? If I need to firmly hold a board against the bench, what are my options? I assume it will involve some dog holes and accessories, I just don’t know what’s out there (which is where the internet search/headache comes in). I’ve used various homemade jigs (“T” shaped planing stops, bench hooks, etc) but am hoping for something more secure.
Thanks.
w2
Replies
That photo makes my hands & shoulders hurt! Without adding a vice I'd suggest multiple lines of dog holes and some opposing wedges.
Set your victim against an end dog and two side dogs, then add side dogs on your side and tap in the wedges. You'll find yourself working without the wedges before long.
That makes perfect sense, and I like the simple. Thanks MJ!
Well-spaced dog holes of 3/4"/19mm plus the shorter-post variety of workholders like some of these:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories
The dog hole spacing needs to have them at fairly exact distances one from another, meaning that implements using two or more posts will fit easily anywhere on the bench (although some holders have variable post spacing).
The shorter post items I use the most are plane stops (shallow flat bar held between two dog-hole posts) and the shorter bench dogs and stops, including those with a screw and stop through their tops, so that one plus a standard dog make a small benchtop vise).
You can, by the way, easily make your own bench stops et al using scrap and some 3/4" or 19mm hardwood dowelling, threaded rod, nuts/bolts and so forth. Bench dogs of any length, perhaps with a specialised grabber mounted on top, can be made easily, inclusive (if you like) of a small ball-catch in the dog's post to keep the dog at the height you set it (prevents it slipping down a hole if the fit is otherwise a bit loose).
Lataxe
Thank you Lataxe, that makes great sense. Some of the accessories out there seem to solve a problem that doesn’t exist for me yet (so goes the grinding gears of capitalism), so I’m going to keep it simple to start. Short dogs in well placed holes. Plane stops against two dogs and MJs wedges will probably serve most of my needs.
Dog holes as suggested by mj and lat_axe are probably the way to go, but don’t forget that you can always just clamp a board down and use that as a planing stop. My bench has dog holes, but I find I prefer using a planing board or planing stop whenever possible, rather than restraining board rigidly.
Thanks crickets. I had been using a modified version of this, where I used screws instead of clamps. I had a strip of 1/4” plywood screwed into the very end of my bench. Besides being crude and beastly, I found the face vise got in the way, plus I seemed to lose control of longer boards.
I had a similar situation in that I had a second bench with no dog holes and decided I needed them. I used a Wood Owl smooth bore 3/4 auger bit and a Lee Valley dog hole bushing mounted in a plywood square big enough that I could clamp down at various points securely. Worked really well. I use a variety of dogs, wedges, and Sjobergs screw hold fasts - which are fantastic and inexpensive.
You can use your front vise to plane shorter boards. Drill dog holes in the front sacrificial wooden jaw pad (or just use the extendable metal tab) and then a few more down the width of the bench in line with the vise. Then you can clamp down on pieces that more or less fits between the width of bench and plane away from you instead of sideways. This setup is also good for holding down boards for ROS sanding.
Some pics of various work holding gubbins are attached. As well as making dog holes in the bench top, for various posted work holding devices, sub-structures can be made that clamp in the vise or to the workbench itself, using screws/bolts or quick clamps.
You can even make yourself a small secondary bench that concentrates all sorts of work holders in a small area. The secondary bench is then clamped on top of the main bench, offering a large variety of work holding possibilities.
If you peruse the FWW website for old articles on the subject, you'll find a great many shop-made work holding solutions such as wedges, stops and sub-fences. Lots of them can be made from scrap and inexpensive stuff like threaded rods and nuts/bolts.
But sometimes there are commercial work holders that would take a lot of time, effort and dollars to make yourself. Anyroadup, the choice and configuration of work holders for woodworking is very wide indeed.
Lataxe
More pics of work holders, including some using T-track as the means to locate and grip a workholder.
A last couple of pics.
I have all sorts of other odds & sods for holding various things. Perhaps the most difficult stuff to hold are very small parts of boxes and the like that need the application of things like hand routers and small planes, as the workholder can easily get in the way when attempting to apply the tool to such small work pieces.
These pics are great Lataxe, thanks for posting! Lots to digest and think about there.
With that cabinet there, you won't be able to use dogs, holdfasts, or anything else. If you shorten the cabinet 6" or so you can get away with it, with annoyance. I'd take the cabinet out -- in fact I did, on my bench, years ago.
Holdfasts are the best thing ever.
Check out Chris Schwarz's Anarchist's Workbench. You can download it free. It's got tons of great workholding strategies.
I ordered Anarchists Workbench and it arrives tomorrow (I know you can get the pdf, but I’m a paper person, complete with pencil scribbling in margins). I won’t do anything until I’ve been through it.
I understand why holdfasts won’t work with a cabinet underneath, but I don’t get the dogs. You need to get at these things from underneath? If I was going to get rid of the cabinet/drawers, I’d be tempted to build a second bench. Hmmmm….
Empty space under the bench top is good for holdfasts (which are the most versatile of work holders) but most of the other hold down gubbins can work in a shallow dog hole without the need for their post to protrude below the bench top.
Even a notched-post hold down (like the big one in my pics above, or the small/short ones sold by Lee Valley) can work without having to go below the work bench top.
Incidentally, you can make a lot of very useful work holders using dog holes in your bench legs and along the bench top apron edges. For example, a Veritas bench pup with the screwed jaw through it, in one of several dog holes made along the front apron of your bench, can be a mini end vise holding one end of a workpiece whilst your face vise holds the other end. Leg dog holes can take a longer dog at various heights to use as a support for a long and heavy plank with the other end in your face vise.
That bench book mentioned by JC2 has many such configurations shown.
Lataxe
https://sjobergs.se/en/accessories/holdfast-accessories/
If you're planing a 1/4" board, the dogs can only be above the bench a smidgen. If planing a 2" board, you want them up higher. They need to project below the bench, sometimes by a lot. You often need room to give them a good whack from below, too.
Thank you John. I spent the day in the shop figuring out where to put the drawer cabinet after I detach/extract it from the bench. Everything except the bench is on wheels, so it should be possible. Space is tight but not *that* tight. Might as well do it right.
“[Deleted]”
Holdfasts need to stick out below the bench, but my dogs never do. I have round holes and the dogs live in a box on a shelf, not in the holes. None of them are as long as the bench is thick. They fit, but are not tight and have o-rings to adjust heights. No reason to move the cabinet to use dogs... but holdfasts absolutely.
Thanks MJ. I’ve mentally almost-committed to moving the drawer cabinet. It seems like a better long term solution.
Now I’m concerned about the top not holding up to the beating, especially with holdfasts. The top is laminated 2x4s from Lows (the bench is Schwartz’s “2 Day Workbench”. It was my first big project 6’ish years ago). It’s pretty far down on the Janka scale. I’m concerned the dog holes would quickly become badly mis-shapened and I’d eventually struggle to get the holdfasts to hold (mind you, I’ve never actually used a holdfast).
Am I over thinking it (again)? I was thinking of mortising out three or four “squares” in the top, say 2” x 2”, and dropping/gluing in some hardwood blocks. Those would become my “holdfast holes” (after I make the hole in the block).
I don't think the hardwood square will make much diff. A pound-in holdfast wedges between the top & bottom edges of the hole. I have found them to be inconsistent and have given all but 1 away. If you want the last one to play with I'll send it for the cost of shipping.
I turned to Record #145s instead. More of a commitment to place the collars in the bench, but I think they are superior, especially in terms of consistent holding power. I have 2 collars in my top, one in a front leg, and one in my moxxon. I have 3 of the holdfasts, with one of them cut short to allow for the moxxon and a spot close to my front vise. I'll buy them whenever I trip over one.
There's a modern version out there too that does not have the collars, but does not have the pivoting jaw/nose:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/31149-veritas-hold-down?item=05G1401
Although I have space under the work bench, there is also a cabinet lower down, with various things in the space between the cabinet top and the bench top underside. Generally I can get a long-post hold down to work, even on a small (not tall) work piece but sometimes a hold down with a shorter post is needed to clear the cabinet-top clutter.
The Lee Valley hold down is very expensive but very good indeed at gripping both the dog hole and the work piece. If you can spring for the full size beast you can at least pay less for the short post they sell that requires less depth for the post to fit in the dog hole as you want:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/100070-optional-5-1-2-inch-post-for-veritas-hold-downs?item=05G1402
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After trying various hold downs, I eventually found these, which have a roughened finish to the posts. They grip far, far better than hold downs with smooth posts, even if the dog hole is less than ideal.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/simon-james-holdfasts-pair-with-free-19mm-auger/
They grip well even with just some hand pressure to the top rather than a mallet blow. You could cut them short i' the post and they'd still work well.
The same bloke also makes these, which are very good planing stops for thin pieces - although one must be careful of the teeth, which will bite a finger as readily as the end grain of a small plank!
https://www.workshopheaven.com/simon-james-toothed-bench-dog/
Lataxe
Thank you both for the great info. I saw what looked to me like pipe flanges in Lataxe’s bench and wondered about them, now I see those are “collars” for Record 145s (and others I assume). The Veritas hold down looks pretty sweet, and I’m a big Lee Valley/Veritas fan. The Sjoberg’s that user-*473 recommends are another option that looks similar (thank you user-*473)
I’m going to read the Schwartz “Anarchist Workbench” book and stew on things a while before drilling any holes.
Holdfasts and stops will take care of 99% of what you need. The great thing about holdfasts is the speed of use. A good wooden mallet can either set or loosen them with just a whack or two. It makes moving the wood around, flipping it or otherwise repositioning it very easy. I do think eventually you will want a hardwood bench, but for now, get started simple and make some stuff! good luck.
Just for the sake of argument... if you do a search on YT, Paul Sellers goes into some detail on how he manages most work-holding *without* dog holes or hold-fasts, by using some inexpensive 'sash' bar clamps.
Personally, I'm more in the camp of using "traditional" work-holding methods as others here have already described... but he certainly seems to get by just fine without them. Also, if you look at some of Charles Hayward's old books, you see some similar approaches as well.
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