Any real life experience with this?
Thanks, Joe
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Replies
Been using it for several months now. Quite happy with it. Did a great job of squaring up my blades, so that took extra time. It does put a beautiful mirror finish reproducibly on the back and bevel. Very easy to flatten the backs. Once you have any blade set the first time, it is extremely easy to touch it up on the finer sheets while working. It will not do any blade wider than 2". I just got the Veritas grinding jig and am playing with how to set it up to grind the larger blades on the top. I will let you know if I am ever successful.
I don't have a problem using ScaryShap on my chisels. But what I REALLY need is something that will / can sharpen the Wife's drawer full of kitchen knives.
It's a pain to try scary on them - shapes/curves etc.
Can the Veritas or the Worksharp quickly put a sharp edge on knives? What's your recommendation? Thanks!!
I have never tried it but I would suspect it would be difficult to hold a consistent profile by hand. For several years we have had a Chef'sChoice Model 120 on the counter in the kitchen. It has built in 3 grades of diamond stones with fixed angles. I run the knives through the finest whenever I start using it. From time to time I resharpen with the mid stone or do all three. I like doing the knives this way, since I am never without an extremely sharp knife. The best test is the very ripe tomatoes this time of year.
I realize holding a consistant profile would be somewhat "difficult" (!) but that's the same difficulty I have hen I use stones.
I would suspect using a spinning wheel would be slightly more easy since it would just take a "swipe" of the blade over the wheel.
Not knowing how these two units work (Veritas / Worksharp), my question is is the sandpaper wheel facing up? so I could just turn it on, swipe the knife over the spinning wheel and get a good (or at least adequate) edge on the blade? It looks like the worksharp only sharpens blades put under the wheel. Is that true? or do both units have the wheel face facing up for easy use?
I have the Chef's chioce, but loke everything else, it's hidden somewhere under the counter and by the time I find it, the knives are so dull it takes forever to put an edge on them. It would be esier for my to just grab a handfull of knives, go down to me shop and sharpen them. Would either of these tools do that? If so, which would you recommend?
Thanks!!!!
Edited 9/5/2007 2:25 pm ET by rwjiudice
Edited 9/5/2007 2:27 pm ET by rwjiudice
I use Scary Sharp all the time sharpening kitchen knives. It's not nearly as precise as required by plane/chisel blades, or at least that has been my experience.
What I think makes the difference is that I use what I call a sharpening steel rod after Scary Sharp to clean up the edges. My Dad always used one on his knives in the store when he was meatcutter. It is sort of like a burnisher, only longer, and its surface is like very fine sandpaper.
I also use it to tune up the blade every so often but eventually I have to rehone using Scary Sharp.
Takes a bit of practice getting used to holding the knife, especially the Chefs Knife (large blade) but an arching sweeping motion with the blade at a slight angle works great for me. I start at the base and work toward the tip.
Several sweeps on each side, alternating sides whilst going up the grits from 320 to 600 then a few more on the sharpening steel and I good to go.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The paper is used facing downwards for sharpening using the built-in guide. It can be used facing upwards as when flattening the back or anytime you work free-hand. The strop is always used face-up.
put a sharp edge on knives?Ceramic 'steels' My mother uses one and if you blow across her blades you hear TWO screams as one microbe falls apart in two pieces!I don't own good knives BUT if I did I'd go to a restaurant supplier and ask them.
Edited 9/6/2007 9:25 pm by WillGeorge
rw,most important is what kind of knives? (brand, metal, size and use-type)
For openers ya don't want a .5 micron mirror edge on a kitchen knife, it needs a little tooth to shear the food fibers (think cross cut saw) and a steel is to straighten the micro edge between sharpenings. Good kitchen knives need at least half the attention and frequency of plane irons and chisels if ya want them sharp.
I unfortunately have 4 major addictions; tournament 14-1 straight pool, scale radio control aircraft, fine woodworking, fine cooking and I care for my kitchen knives the same as my tool edges. I will try to point ya in the correct direction. Paddy
Knuts,
I am near to retirement, so I have taken a part time job at the local Woodcraft. I wouldn't recommend doing that for the money. But it is a hoot. I get asked a lot of difficult questions by people who have gotten themselves in trouble and now need to get out. I do it for 9 hours a week, and would probably continue to do it if they eliminated what they call "pay". One of the many benefits is that you get to try out all the new toys, oops, sorry, I meant "Tools". Well, the Work Sharp arrived, and we got it out of the case, set it up and put some of the shop's chisels to it. WOW, I have never flattened the back of a chisel so quickly. It reminded me of the first time I used a microwave oven. What at difference from the old way!
It does a nice job on the bevels and adds a nice microbevel.
Now for the downside. Actually, I haven't seen that yet. I guess that one would be the cost. But then again, what is a measily few hundred dollars to a yuppie woodworker? There is something that I am looking to get more info on. That is, how long will the sandpaper disks last. You are putting a blade to a spinning disk. Only a small circular path on the spinning disk hits the paper. If you do that in Scary Sharp, then you wear the paper out very quickly.
I haven't gotten that far yet. I just did one chisel, front and back, and was very pleasantly surprised.
As for me, I like diamonds. Diamonds are forever.
Have fun. If I get more info, I'll let you know. Meanwhile if you get down to the Springfield, Virginia Woodcraft, we can turn the machine on and you can give it a try.
Have fun.
Mel
PS Do you know that Tormek has a new model out? It cost about a hundred more than the last one. I haven't tried it yet. However, I am planning to open up a museum of sharpening equipment someday. So far, I have not been able to find a place big enough to house all of the equipment. Something about the size of downtown Dallas would be about right.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I'd like your input to my questions also. Sounds like you also have good hands on experience. (Plus you have my dream job!!!!! Warden in a big boys toy store!!!!)
Thanks
Hi,
You said:
I'd like your input to my questions also. Sounds like you also have good hands on experience. (Plus you have my dream job!!!!! Warden in a big boys toy store!!!!)Gotta admit - I have a lot of fun at Woodcraft. Don't know where you live. If you ever get to Virginia, look me up, and we'll go into Woodcraft for a shift, and you can experience the toy store in all of its splendor and gory. (Oops, I meant "glory")I am not sure exactly what your "questions" were. It is hard to describe the fact that the Worksharp can work two ways (over or under the spinning disk). Working under the disk just involves inserting the blade into a hole into which it can fit very nicely, and let disk spin. If you work on top of the disk, you have to hold the blade and that can involve some practice and skill.My take on all "sharpening aids" is that it is best to stay away from them. The Tormek is not really a jig, but rather a jig that holds jigs. That can be used to do a lot of stuff, but it still requires some skill. You get better with time. That is about the only system that I would recommend. What i really recommend is either using oilstones or waterstones or diamondstones, and honing by hand. YOu could get the old Pinnacle type jig for use sometimes. Practice and practice until you can do it by hand. You will learn!!! It just takes practiceGo to http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com and review their set of pages on how to do this. It is all you will ever need. Now for my real advice. YOu need to be careful of taking advice on Knots. I am a hobbyist, not a professional. I have my specific experiences and my druthers. However, I am far from an expert. Everyone has advice on sharpening.
For what it is worth, my advice is
Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Ignore all the devices. Just get a good set of stones and practice on old junky blades. You will do damage to your hands for a while, but you will survive. In a few months, you will be on the woodworking tour, giving lessons on how to do sharpening by hand, and you will charge $1000 per student per day. In less than three years of doing this, you will be as famous as Lonnie Bird or Lataxe, and you will be filthy rich. People will look up to you as a GOD. After all, how could a mere mortal learn how to sharpen by hand? You must be a genius! Be prepared to be adored by throngs of woodworkers across the world.And all because of my message to you.
You will owe me big time! :-)
Whatever you do,
Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
RW,
Seriously,
the sharpening expert on Knots is Derek Cohen. He is seriously knowledgeable and good. For an example: go to
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/LVSkewJig/index.aspto see him review a honing jig. I believe that my general advice to you to work on learning to sharpen and hone by hand is very good advice, jigs have a place. Do a search on "sharpening" in Knots and look through stuff that Derek has posted. He has some classics. He posts nice photos and good explanations. All of his stuff is based on tests. I know too many people who keep switching methods of sharpening, and the media that they use (scary sharp, waterstones, ceramics, diamonds) and they keep buying the latest jigs. That gets frustrating and expensive. My advice is to read a lot, pick any of the media and then practice, practice practice, and with time you'll try different things, like skew chisels, cambered (rounded blades), etc etc etc.There is a CD by Rob Cosman on sharpening and using hand planes. Very good. Watch it. There are others. Watch any of them. None of them cover it all. Then just settle down on any method and stick with it. There are two great books on sharpening. One by Leonard Lee (remember Lee Valley) and one by Thomas Lie Nielsen (the plane guy). Both are great. I like the latter better but either will do you very well.I hope that helps. Also continue to search for Knots posts on sharpening by Derek Cohen.
And have fun.
The frustration will pass.
You will learn.
Don't look for miracles from new jigs.
The think you should do is to invent, make and sell new jigs. That is where the money is. (Joke)MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Morning Knuts...
My initial impression was it looks good on paper, but when I read that it will only do up to 2" wide; it got mentally dropped from my "I'll check it out list". Just how many plane blades do I have that are 2" or under? What were they thinking?
The answer for me is a couple of specialty planes (medium shoulder.. block.. etc.) and that's a big limitation IMO. Why would I hire a full time employee that can only perform from 8 AM till Noon? I wouldn't and there lies the answer to would I buy one in the current state.
I haven't had time to tinker yet (but I will eventually), but I think the same thing could be done with the disk on a belt-disk combo machine by building a jig to ride in the miter slot of the support table. That table will angle as the WS and why would I limit my jig to 2" as stated?
Overall... I think it is an excellent idea that comes up a few yards short of a touchdown due to someone made the right call in the huddle but the execution was not completely carried though which still leaves the question of "why" in my mind?
Regards...
Sarge..
"but when I read that it will only do up to 2" wide; it got mentally dropped from my "I'll check it out list". "
You read wrong -- sorta. I looked at the video link that was posted somewhere earlier in this thread. From viewing the video, it appears that the 2" limitation only applies to use of the underside of the disk. For wider blades, you simply use the top of the disk and a guide that is on the top of the tool.
I have no experience with this tool -- just thought I'd clarify the 2" thing.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Afternoon Mike...
Thanks Mike as I was aware of their alternative of free-handing on top for over 2" as I did see the video when it was first posted here. But... as I see it free-handing is free-handing and I do it often with a tempered glass plate by hand which is no major obstacle as I see it.
And as I mentioned.. why not just use the disc sander I already have if I want to speed things up free-handing. I do not see any major difference with free handing on top of the WS or a disc? Maybe I have missed something, but I see no immediate need to rush out and pay $200 for a machine that allows me to free-hand on a spinning disc when I already have one that performs many more task than just that.
Which leads back to the question.. why didn't they just make the jig on the WS 3' wide which would be a more flexible alternative trying to market a new product as it would cover chisels and plane irons using the more accurate jig?
Regards...
Sarge..
"why didn't they just make the jig on the WS 3' wide which would be a more flexible alternative trying to market a new product as it would cover chisels and plane irons using the more accurate jig?"
My guess is because it would have required using a non-standard sized abrasive disk, but ???
As for WS vs. disk sander, well, the WS does have a glass backer, is slower speed (presumably), has the "see-through" option, has a tool rest on the top and a guide on the bottom, has 2 grits of abrasive running at the same time. . . .
Again, I haven't used the tool and am not recommending it -- I do see some advantages tho' for, e.g., quickly touching up chisels, grinding bevels, sharpening gouges.
It does seem to me that it wouldn't have been too tough to come up with a better topside tool rest so angles could be accurate and repeatable. Even as it is, it probably wouldn't be too tough to jerry rig something in this regard. I wouldn't be surprised if WS4000 is in the works with just such an "upgrade"! Still, 2 hunnert is at the lower end of the price range for sharpening systems currently on the market.
All in all, this seems like a pretty good idea that just needs to be developed a bit further.Even so, I'm not likely to spring for one since my current hodgepodge of sharpening stuff/techniques seem to be doing pretty well by me.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Hey Mike...
"All in all, this seems like a pretty good idea that just needs to be developed a bit further.Even so, I'm not likely to spring for one since my current hodgepodge of sharpening stuff/techniques seem to be doing pretty well by me" ... Mike Hennessy
*************************
That about says it all from my perspective also, Mike. And I agree that they may have gotten enough feed-back that a wider jig may be in the works. If so.. if I were them... I would design it so it could be retro-fitted to the existing WS or there will be smoke coming from the suburbs. And where there's smoke, there's usually .. well... you know! :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
I have the tool - and I am a very happy camper. I was sold on my first try. I stuck a 'beater' chisel in the slot and found the angle and square were both 'off'. About 5 minutes of work on the 120 grit side of a disc shaped it properly and then about 2 minutes more brought it up to 'hair-shaving' sharp.I'll bet a "4000" model is in the works after the market accepts the principal.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Frosty,
You said "I'll bet a "4000" model is in the works after the market accepts the principal."Truer words were never spoken. Let me take your thinking a few steps further in the same direction. The 5000 model will be come out a year after the 4000, and that will be followed by the 6000.Tormek has come out with an upgraded model which has a number of improvements. Oh, I forgot to mention. It costs more. I believe that the big money in woodworking is not in doing woodwork, but in coming up with newer and better tools, and marketing them well. I have used the Work Sharp, and I watched others using it. I was amazed at the fact that someone who has never sharpened anything could put a very nice edge on a banged up blade in a few minutes, complete with a flattened back. But I wonder about "crutches". We can become so accustomed to crutches that we don't want to learn to walk again. One can take a piece of glass and some sandpaper and put a very nice scary edge on a chisel, just by using your hands as a jig. Of course, it takes a good deal of practice to get there. Once one learns to put a nice sharp edge on a flat straight blade, one can learn to put a nice "slightly rounded edge" on a plane blade for smoothing. One can learn to put a nice edge on a skew blade. etc etc etc. But if one gets used to the perfection of a machine like the Work Sharp on flat straight blades, one will never get up the gumption to try to learn how to sharpen other types of blades.As you know, I am a strange duck, but to me, sharpening is a nice break from making furniture and carvings. I am getting better at it. I feel a great deal of satisfaction when I see the results of the sharpening I just did by hand, and without a jig. Taking a shaving from the end grain of a scrap piece of pine is a delight, even if sharpening is not the stuff of neurosurgery. Anyone can learn to sharpen a variety of blades very well by hand. An IQ of 80 to 90 will suffice. One need not have finished grammar school. So to me, these machines are a mixed blessing. I am not in favor of outlawing such machines, nor am I in favor of the Church declaring them the work of the devil. I just hate to see woodworkers consciously decide to deprive themselves of the joys of sharpening by hand.Y'all have fun, and be sure not to pay attention to crazed Luddites on Knots.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,We agree on the new models bit. I don't know about you but when my new wodworking catalogs come, I turn to the front and back few pages where there are products with a bright-colored "NEW" splashed on them. We all seem to look for something new that "we didn't know we needed."Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Frosty,
good point on reading the new tool catalogs when they first arrive. I tend to pore over them, again and again, but I am getting better and better at not buying fads.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Morning Mel...
Nicely said... Interesting how many will lament for months on choosing a a new tool even when the design is simplistic. This one has this feature.. that one has that other nice feature and the other one has the super duper poopy scooper to boot plus both the other two features.
A good example is a router table. And the bad news if you make the decision today.. tomorrow another one will reach the market that will out-feature today's offerings and you make the comment, "I wish I had waited"! I could have built 5 router cabinets and tables with all the features "I" wanted customized for "me" in the time it takes to decide which offerings on which model will fit my needs before I compromise and make the purchase.
I never got the veggie-matic and don't have a cell phone. A marine K-bar and two Dixie cups and a string suffice nicely in their place. The vegetables still get chopped and I can still communicate. And even though no rocket scientist, I'm still intelligent enough to know the K-bar won't handle the outer shell of a coconut. The back side of a hatchet will though and then the K-bar will get you to the finish line. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 9/9/2007 9:32 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
I like your style.
Thanks for writing.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
You know, these new fangled sharpening watcha ma kollits aren't really all that new or innovative. Take your basic belt/disc sander and with a little practice holding the irons at a different angle, they do the same job. Maybe a jig or 3 to help you hold the irons, like a perpendicular tool rest for a lathe.
And you can use 'em for other things too, like sanding wood. Bet ya can't do that with a WS 3000!
Regards,
P.S. Oh ya I almost forgot, I already own the belt/disc sander!
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/9/2007 7:09 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 9/9/2007 7:10 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
You are wise beyond your years.
And you are rich too.
Do you really own a belt sander?
I just hold a piece of sandpaper and move my hand fast.:-)Mel the LudditeMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Actually I'm a cheap old Fart.
I agree with Napie and Adam C.; use what ya got. With a little ol fashioned Yankee ingenuity you can make do with what ya have.
Hey, I'm not famous for Granite Flakes just 'cause I ain't got no polite! Mix 'em in with a dash of WD-40 on a slab of hard maple. Pass the blade a few times across my barbers strop and life is good.
Regards,
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/9/2007 10:40 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Oh Mel,
Got another one for ya.
Got a 1" Delta belt sander that is great for honing turning chisels and carving blades. It's flexible if you remove the backer plate and you can use the table as a guide too. If you're not too agressive you can actually feel the sandpaper cutting the edge.
Nice tool to finess the edge. Works great for shaping wood too!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
You and I are so much alike, it is scary. I also have a Delta 1" belt sander, and I use it for my carving gauges. Is it possible that we were separated at birth and have led parallel lives?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Ya mean there's another crusty ol' fart in here!? That's scary but sharp!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
The thread "Is someone copying your design" is very close to 300 posts. Please help get it over the top. Read Ray's poetry and mine, and see if you think it was stolen.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Bob & Mel, try the LV leather belt with green compound. I think it still comes in both sizes 30" and 42", works great. Paddy
Hey Paddy,
Good to hear from you.
I recycled my barbers strop and mounted it on a slab of birch. Yes the LV green compound works great. Got another section that I use with valve grinding compound that works good as a prep for the green.
It's getting into the season up here in NH so I can work in the shop without heat or cooling. Nice and cool and dry. Open the windows and life is good.
Wife wants the ET B4 Thanksgiving. Summer is too short up here. But it's getting into my woodworking time of year and am having a ball.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 9/10/2007 9:26 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Paddy,
the leather belt on the 1" belt sander with chromium oxide honing compound is excellent. Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
As Mr. Monk would say, "here's the thing".
Over the years I've owned 2 water systems and they have gone to where my chisel mortiser went; to someone else! I don't have the patience, eyesight nor the talent to really sharpen tools.
So I'm thinking; if this thing is foolproof, I'm your man!
I just ordered one...will relate my experience in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for all of your input.
Joe
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