I read somewhere in a post here that someone suggested IKEA’s laminated birch butcher block material. I bought two of them today, 2′ x 6′ x 1-1/8″ and am getting my clamps ready to face-join them. It seems like a major cheat but you can’t beat the price and the time factor.
Anybody want to warn me off this approach?
Edited 4/20/2008 2:11 am ET by b52
Replies
I assume you mean 2' x 6', not 2" x 6". I built a kitchen island using and Ikea butcher block a while back and it was plenty sturdy for the application at hand. I would be worried about the thickness though. For such a thin bench top, I'd feel more comfortable with additional support below. I suppose that depends on how much downward stress the benchtop will see. An assembly table won't see the same forces as a bench which you chop mortises on. I like the idea of mass and additional strength of a thicker top, myself.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris, you're right: it is 2 x 6 feet, of course. Don't you think two thicknesses will be enough for a bench? The final thickness will be 2-1/4" of solid laminated birch. One long edge will be hinged to a ledger on the wall and the front edge will stand on three drop-down legs with levelers at the bottom. I'm hoping it will be plenty rigid. No?
I misunderstood. I thought that you were going to edge glue the two slabs or make a trough in the center. 2' just seems a little shallow for a free standing bench, that's all. However, it sounds as if it will drop down from a wall, in which case 2' is probably a good size. If you laminate the two together to create a double thick blank, it should be plenty rigid. I'd be a little concerned with how it glues up, as I believe they oil their butcher blocks.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Wow. Great point. They are oiled. Maybe I should plane them clean before gluing? That would also enable me to flatten them if they're out of true. Do you think the oil would interfere significantly with the bond?
I do think that the oil will interfere with the glue bond - and removing the top surface probably won't do too much to prevent that. I don't know if there's a glue suitable for gluing oiled woods. I wouldn't wager on yellow glue working well. Maybe you could mechanically fasten them together with splines or a frame.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I would look into a G2 epoxy. Its used in boat building and is suitable for oiled woods such as teak. its a little pricey but probably worth the investment if the bench is to be a keeper.
OK, I'll look into epoxy. I was going to go over it with mineral spirits to remove some of the oil. It doesn't appear to be heavily oiled, but who knows?
Off hand, it seems that acetone would be much better to dilute the oil off than the mineral spirits that you suggest. Maybe some more knowledgeable poster will respond.
I don't use mineral spirits much, but I use lacquer (acetone) thinner a whole lot. It's my univeral cleaner!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
You should also include some support from front to rear (perpendicular to the long axis of the laminations). I would ask around at lumber yards and cabinet shops to find someone to sand down the meeting faces on a wide belt sander. This would remove some of most oiled wood and give you the best chance of getting a good match. Epoxy would my adhesive of choice.<!----><!----><!---->
Please consider using a pulley system to raise your table to its stowed position- especially if you add the weight of a vice or two.<!----><!---->
Chuck<!----><!---->
Yes, I've thought of adding a couple of support pieces from front to back, and have also planned to use pulleys and a tieoff cleat such as on a boat to raise it and keep it up. Your vote makes two for epoxy.
You talk about belt sanding. How much wood would that remove compared to planing? I planed a small section and now water doesn't raise the grain in that area, so I know I've removed some of the wood.
In the end, with such a large mating surface, am I worrying too much about keeping the slabs together?
I suggested a wide belt sander so that you can have the minimum amount of wood removed with the minimum chance of damage to the wood. (I would think that 1/16-3/32 would be a lot.) At the same time the flatness would be ensured.
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A planner would not leave as smooth a surface but since you plan to use epoxy, which fills gaps, there really would be no difference.
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Have you figured out how to keep the slabs flat, aligned and with clamping pressure all across the surfaces? (locating pins, cauls and blocks, threaded rod through dog holes)
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A single slab properly supported would certainly work but two would be better. Vices aren’t mounted with light weight screws and they need to be firmly attached. A consistent thickness through out also simplifies clamping.
Chuck
Chuck,
I have a friend with a wide belt sander, but I'd have to tie the slabs to the roof of my car to get them there and back. As an alternative, why not hand-planing? I could take two or three 0.002" shavings off and get the same amount of wood as sanding. I planed a trial section and had no trouble with the grain. In fact, a key reason I selected this material is to be able to plane the top of the bench as I use it.
I'm thinking of making a few 3' convex cauls to sandwich the slabs at top and bottom across the width. That should prevent any gaps during glue-up. Aligning shouldn't be a problem because the slabs are the same size and shape.
I see that you have already discovered a problem with hand planing and power planing may only make it worse. My concern with hand planing was your ability to get the two large surfaces truly flat. <!----><!----><!---->
Curved cauls are good for applying pressure across the slabs but you also need some way to keep them aligned. Otherwise as you apply pressure they will slide out of alignment. I recommend that you use dowels (minimum 1/2", 3/4" even better) or large common nails near diagonally opposite corners. With the slabs stacked, drill through the bottom of the bottom slab and half way into the top one. You want to be able to press the dowels or nails into these holes so try it on a test piece first as the nominal size of you dowel may not match your drill bit. After spreading your adhesive either a) put the pins into the holes of the top and lift the bottom onto them or, b) lift the bottom onto the top aligning one hole, press in the pin, align the other hole and press in its pin (a mallet or clamp may be useful here). Chamfering the ends of the dowels helps. You may need clamps to get the pieces to align. If the pins are dowels and they become part of the bench there is no problem. If they are nails they may become a problem. Make them long and mark them so that you know when they have bottomed out and flush cut them after the adhesive has cured.<!----><!---->
Do a dry run or two to get this down and use a slow setting adhesive. Your bench will last a long time so don't rush this and be unhappy with it.<!----><!---->
Good Luck,<!----><!---->
Chuck<!----><!---->
Chuck,
Pin-registering with dowels sounds like a fine idea. I can imagine the slabs sliding during clamping over all that glue, and requiring too much force to line back up. I'll take you up on that. I definitely prefer dowels to metal hardware of any kind.
Thanks for all your advice.
Mechanical fastning has been mentioned. How about a few rows of Festool Dominos put on 8" centers? Not much of anything would pull or push it appart then.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
IKea sells two different tops, one birch and the other red beach. The beach I suspect you are referring to. I have purchased these tops for various purposes, desk tops, book cases, and of course an assemble table for my shop. I would not recommend you try to plane these, as the pieces are finger jointed and glued together with no alignment of the grain, and beach WILL chip out and ruin an otherwise nice top.
The oil that the manufacturer is an edible bio degradable product, but it is applied lightly to keep the top stable when shipping. I have found with light sanding the top will easily provide a surface to glue the pieces together.
Personally, I would not laminate two together, but reinforce the edges with two inch or equivalent stock. For my application, I took two inches off the 25"width and used that as edging for the top, which works well because it is an exact match. Simply joining the edge of both will enable you to add the front edging to the front or the front bottom of the edge. Ikea advertises the top at 1 1/8, which is conservative as it runs a little thicker, and frankly, adding a rib on the underside, or your work bench frame of the base is sufficiently strong enough for most cabinet making applications.
These tops are an excellent value as you have discovered and cut offs make great cutting boards.
Good luck.
Jeff
Jeff,
"I would not recommend you try to plane these, as the pieces are finger jointed and glued together with no alignment of the grain, and beach WILL chip out and ruin an otherwise nice top."
When you wrote this, I had already planed a section about 6 inches in from the edge, about 2 feet long, and didn't have any tearout. So I didn't believe you. I just now went over the remainder of the width of that 2' section and I have the worst tearout I've ever seen. My power planer and jointer don't tear out like this.
My plane iron is mirror sharp so it must be my technique. I was taking about 0.002" shavings for most of the time, but it probably drifted to more than that at times. Who knows? I'm an absolute beginner with the smoother plane but I followed the honing and polishing steps precisely and by all appearances the iron was perfectly tuned, with a tiny camber. Maybe I pushed too hard? I also noticed that small chips built up in the mouth occasionally, so I'll go check the chipbreaker edge. In any case, it's a good thing the surface I was working on is the inside of this sandwich I'm trying to make.
It does make me question the choice of this material for a benchtop, though, because I'll want to flatten the top periodically and I thought hand planing would be the way to do it.
Thanks for your (unheeded) warning.
Hey B52
Believe me (this time), its not your approach. The sections of these tops that are finger jointed together end to end are too small and the grain far too irregular to predict any outcome other than gouging and chipping.
All is not lost However. I would not touch the surface with anything other than a wide belt sander, or if you don't have access to one, use a hand held belt sander. FWW had an article a few years back of how to precisely flatten a workbench top by moving back and forth diagonally rotating as you sand. Naturally you can search this site for the article, but that's an inexpensive and proven way to flatten any wood surface quite accurately. Be sure to use a coarse grit of 80 or less to prevent gumming of the paper.
If you find someone with a wide belt sander, be sure to remove the oil on the top first by sanding yourself as described above, otherwise you may not have much assistance from an owner running that through his machine. The oil used for those tops never really seems to cure and just gums up a machine. The good news as I stated previously, is that these tops have a very light coat for transportation, and a few passes is all it takes.
I hope this helps. Good luck.
Jeff
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