Hi everyone. This is my first post here, but I have been reading for quite a while. I am trying to make a decision about purchasing a workbench and I could use some advice.
First of all let me give you some background so you know where I am coming from. I live in an apartment in Redondo Beach, CA and I have a one car garage. I don’t have room for any stationary power tools, but I have a lot of handheld power tools and I have been getting more and more into using handtools. One thing that really limits my ability to use handtools is the lack of a good workbench. Currently I am using two pieces of 3/4 inch MDF glued together and attached to some sawhorses with one of those tiny 6 inch clamp on vices from Rockler. I am looking to purchase/make a nice workbench and I would like some of your advice on what I should do.
Option 1: Make a workbench
I would love to make a workbench but it seems like it would be extremely difficult right now. I take classes at a community college that is about 20 miles away (in Souther California this drive can sometimes take an hour). This is my only real access to power tools. Making a workbench would take considerable time and effort and it would be difficult getting in the time to make it at my local community college. It would take me at least 6 months, I wouldn’t be able to start until January when the new semester begins, it would still cost a lot of money for nice lumber, hardware, etc.
Option 2: Ulmia Workbenches
Garrett Wade sells 2 Ulmia workbenchs, the Cabinetmakers bench and the professional bench. The cabinetmakers bench is about $1000 and has storage cabinets underneath. It is said to weigh 260 pounds. The professional bench is about $1800 weighs 325 pounds. Both of these benches supposedly cost about $200 to ship. I feel like the professional workbench is probably nicer and sturdier but I am tempted by the cabinetmakers bench since it is $800 cheaper. If anyone has some experience with the difference between these two I would appreciate any insight.
Option 3: Custom Made Lie-Nielsen Workbench
Lie-Nielsen recently began taking orders for workbenches. You can’t find much info about the benches on their website but if you call them they can provide information. The Lie-Nielsen workbenches are $1800. They are made out of solid maple. 2 1/2 inches in the center and 5 inches on the sides. You can get them in 7 foot or 8 foot lengths. They will customize the height. You can choose whether or not to have a tool tray. You can also choose between a standard quick release shoulder vice or a scandinavian style shoudler vise. For the tail vise yo can choose the classic style or a twin screw vise. I was heavily favoring the Lie-Nielsen benches since pretty much everything they make is awesome. The problem is the shipping. I was quoted a shipping fee of $500 and I would have to pick it up from the shipping depot. To ship it to my house would be $630. It will also take about 3 months to make the bench.
At the moment I am still leaning towards the Lie-Nielsen. The shipping cost is terrible though and might be enough to make me go with the Ulmia. Bottom line, the total cost is similar and I want to get a good bench that I will be happy with for a long time. I think I would be less bothered if the Lie-Nielsen bench was $2100 and $200 shipping fees. This sounds silly but this is just how I feel about it.
Please provide me with any advice/suggestions that you may have.
I also have a couple other smaller questions that would help me make up my decision.
If I go with a Lie-Nielsen should I go with a standard quick release shoulder vice or the scandinavian style shoulder vise? I like the quick release feature and the smaller profile of the bench, but I also like the idea of being able to clamp wide boards more easily.
The Lie-Nielsen bench has square dog holes. The Ulmia professional bench has round dog holes but they are ~1 1/4 inches in diameter. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either of these configurations?
Thanks for the help. I look forward to reading your responses.
-Phil
Replies
agomega,
Your absolutely correct, a good workbench changes everything but I would not get my shorts in a knot over the first bench, nor would I spend that kinda money. Personally, I'd set my dollar max at about $500-600 and that would include two good vises. I'd use my first bench to build my ultimate bench and re-cycle the first as a set-up/finishing table...therefore, maybe a torsion box with extra ply and black iron floor flanges with black nipples and tees for a base.
You can get a pretty decent slab of wood for under $300 delivered....with a little imagination, build that up to meet your specs. If your worried about weight for stability, you can always attach your bench to a sheet of ply..that you stand on while planing.
I like round dogs holes...I can turn new ones on the lathe or buy dowel and attach different size tops for specific jobs.
A year from now (when you stop to catch your breadth from planing)you'll admire the utility of your bench so much more than you can currently imagine....and you'll laugh at yourself for thinking pretty was important. good luck
Couple of issues! If you are getting a big workbench, I assume your garage is to be utilized totally for a shop. Large workbenches aren't easily moved around and also take up a lot of room so it doesn't seem the type of thing to move when you put a car in the garage.
Second, why don't you consider taking your double sheet of MDF and utilizing it as a top and build a base? I can't remember where I saw it but I copied some plans that utilized 2x4s nailed or screwed face to face(over whatever length and width you want), screwed the MDF to it and had legs of about 4x4 or 6x6 braced sufficiently. This table is heavy! It doesn't take that long to build and works. Simple and inexpensive; also when you get the top messed up with glue, etc. you just take it off and put a new MDF top on it.
Phil,
I had been going through the same dilemma that you have up until 3 years ago. I considered building a workbench for over 10 years and never got around to it. I didn't want to spend the money for something that I could build myself but, when I estimated the cost of materials and my time to build it myself, I could buy a pre-built workbench for about the same price. I have seen the Ulmia at Woodcraft but, I thought they went out of business and were no longer made. I have seen the Lie-Nielsen workbenches at Marc Adams School and they are nice. I ended up purchasing a Diefenbach bench and haven't regretted it.
With respect to the need for a quick release vise, I really don't see much need for it as the leadscrews on the vises are pretty coarse and you can move them to the correct position very rapidly. I suppose if you did a lot of changes, it could be a convenience issue but for me this wouldn't make any difference.
On the dogs, my workbench has the square dogs. They are metal which I really don't care for due to the potential damage to tool edges. The round dogs are OK too but consider that unless you have a lathe or a source for 1-1/4" dowels, making your own may be difficult.
Good luck with your decision.
Steve
This might be a good answer for you:
http://www.terraclavis.com/bws/beginners.htm
My first bench was a heavy base with cabinets formed from lap jointed 2x4's and a solid core door for a top. The only hard wood was the 5/4 maple apron and the Record 52 1/2 jaw liners. The thing is a tank. It uses lee valley round dogs in 3/4" holes. You can build it for less than $500 and it functions very well. Just a thought. You can use the extra money to buy more wood or tools.
Phil
This dilemma hits every woodworker at one time or another. I can only say that if you speak to every woodworker at this site, they'd most likely all say that building your own is the way to go. You are never really going to know what vises, dog holes, etc................ work best for you until you actually work with a bench. Everybody works differently, depending on either how they were taught, or what specific kind of work they find themselves doing mostly.
Spending 2000 bucks on your first workbench, not even knowing if it is configured the best way for your style of work, is CRAZY.
I made my first bench in 1 day out of 2 x 4's. Just a glued up slab and a trestle base. I weighed down the base with cinder blocks, and screwed a quick release vise to the side of it. I very quickly realized what kind of bench/vises/dogs I wanted, by using it. I still have the 1st bench in my shop, as it is my finishing bench. I made a nice maple bench a year later with the configurations that work for me, and love it.
I really felt like I accomplished something when my bench was finished, because I did it myself. It was a great sense of pride having built it myself.
Jeff
If you can find FWW #139 in your local library, look at the article by John White. He describes a practical bench that is very inexpensive and can be built quickly using simple but strong joinery. It has clever alternatives to face and end vises. It is not just a cheap interim solution either, as it's used by people who can certainly afford expensive benches.
http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fw_toc_139.asp
Hi Phil,
When faced with the same dilema, I chose something of a middle path. I didn't really want to buld a dream bench on my workmate, but didn't want to spend thousands on a great bench. I essentially bought a DIY bench kit.
I bought the cast iron legs from Lee Valley, and a 2' by 8' by 2 7/8" maple top from perfect plank. I did splurge and got two of the big Record vices. Add in some hard maple for vice faces, some of the round bench dogs from Lee Valley, some threaded rod and 2X8 from Home Depot, and I spent about $800.
It is heavy, stable, and will still be a permanent part of my shop when I finally get around to building my dream bench. I have no regrets after about 6 years.
$.02...
--
don
There seems to be so much angst on the site this week about the tone of discussion I thought I would stir the pot.
Option 4 never gets a mention here:
Change your technique to work on the floor. There are some good illustrations in Jim Tolpin's work bench book and other sources. I built my bench this way - it was the only thing solid enough to handle hand cut mortices in the 6*4 redgum legs.
David
I have my 'GOOD' bench and the one I first made..
My Good bench collects stuff and I use the one I made.. Gee. I wonder why?
Edited 10/23/2005 7:49 pm by WillGeorge
Hi,
Build your own bench!
You will learn more about woodworking than you'll ever read about. Of primary importance is that it must be level! You can buy premade benches but if they aren't level, you will be constantly fighting to square stock. Square, dimensional wood is the cornerstone to Fine Woodworking! Start with a square and level workbench.
It can make a diference in terms of dimensions as to what kind of woodworking you want to do. Size should also be considered as to how large your woodshop is. A solid, flat hardwood top is a must. Daunting as it may seem, I doubt that you can build a woodbench too large. A stable hardwood top is an absolute must.
I have found that Birch for a top is a very good choice. It is stable and forgiving in terms of clamping to other woods. Also, being a little softer, it adds a little give on the shortside for clampimg, but gives me the rigidity on the longside when needed.
Look for a solid-core Birch door as the basis for your bench-top. It will no doubt be flat and sqare to get you started.
Rob
Phil - count this as another vote for "make yourself a bench, but don't spend six months on it."
Appropriate working height, a flat top, a solid base, and clamping versatility are virtues that directly affect the usability of a bench. Expensive hardwoods, exquisite joinery, and a flawless finish are not. I think that the $1,800 cost of a "premium" bench is far better spent on some really fine hand tools, a good sharpening system, and a lot of lumber
Even if cost is no object, I have a reservation about manufactured solid wood benches. Wood moves. I just don't see how a solid wood benchtop can be assembled, shipped to another continent, warehoused for who knows how long and in what conditions, shipped again, and finally arrive at your shop and still be flat.
So, I'd suggest that you sart with what you already have. If your two sheets of MDF measure flat, you're ahead of the game. Add another layer or two of MDF for stifness, bolt together a sturdy framing-lumber base, add a larger vise, and you're in business.
I guess I'm in the minority here, but if you have the funds, I would say go ahead and buy a top of the line bench. it will certainly save you a lot of time and head scratching.
I've not seen the bench from Lie-Nielsen, but those guys are doing some of the best tool work in the world right now, and if they have decided to put their mind to a bench, I would bet it will be a doozy.
Most woodworkers seem to go apoplectic when you suggest buying, rather than making a bench; they would like to see you cobble up some kind of prototype "to see what kind of bench you really need" -- and 20 years later you're still using that crappy bench.
Many years ago, I lived in a NYC loft space, and I almost bought an Ulmia bench. I thought it would make a nifty piece of furniture, and I figured I could come up with some way to move it around when I wanted to use it for wwing. Instead, I made a serviceable (but crappy) bench with a couple of Record vises -- and yep, I used it for nearly 15 years before I got around to making a decent bench. Worst equipment decision I ever made (not buying that Ulmia).
So count my vote for buying the bench; you'll have it all your life. And when you're done, you can either sell it or pass it on to a friend or relative.
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I agree with Nikki... buy a bench and get some furniture projects under your belt. Once you've used a bench designed and built by somebody else you'll be in a better position to make the first bench YOU build a real keeper. It will be perfect in every way.
The best bench I ever worked at was in an old millwork shop. The bench room had four benches and each one of them was 16' long (yep, 16 feet) and 3 1/2 feet wide. Tops were 2" tongue and grooved fir. Base was 4x4 legs (lots of them) with drawers running underneath the top for the middle 10 feet. They were built in the 1920s and had been in continuous use in the same location. They're still there. The back bench, running against the wall was as long but only 2 feet wide. There were four leg vises on the back bench, equally spaced. This bench was cantilevered off the wall. Drawers galore.
You can't imagine what it's like to have that much space at your disposal.
I made my first one ( still got it ) out of laminated pine 4 X 2.
It has a well down the middle and a record quick release vise. I built it in the lounge of a place I was renting. The woodchips got sucked outa the carpet OK and nobody was any the wiser.
After using it for a while I discovered the things I now knew I really wanted in a bench.
Hardwood top, tail vise, lotsa square dogs ( got really annoyed with the rounds ), NO well, ( HATE the way it fills up with crap ) much much bigger top and much heavier.
Without that first one, all these things I would never have found out so easily. Plus I chopped it down 4 inches to suit me. Chiselling a dozen mortices had my arms go numb for weeks, discovered it was too high. Once lowered all was good. No such thing as a 'standard' bench height.
Whatever it was.................I didnt do it.
I will also probably be in the minority here. I struggled with this issue myself last year. I ended up deciding that my precious free time is better spent (for now) working on my project list. I ended up finding Eagle Tools in Los Angeles. Very easy to get to and super helpful. They have several benches (and power tools) for display and testing. I ended up with a 7' Walden, bottom lockable storage cabinet and two vises. I love it, the best I could hope for and much less cost than $1800. I suggest you give them a look. Good Luck!
Kevin Cobb (Bakersfield)
Personally, I would loved to have built my own bench, and I priced the maple, vises, time to build, and then compared it to purchasing a high-end bench. They both came out to about the same. I then figured that since I was going to spend that much anyway, I decided to purchase a ready-made bench. I was going to get the Ulmia but as luck would have it, I found a LaChapelle-Kriens bench for about $500. It was about 15 years old and was a glorified garage table for the whole time. It's in great shape and serves me well. I would have loved to make one for the experience and satisfaction, but I'd rather have it ready and make my mistakes making furniture. :)
My opinion...If you have the moolah, and it sounds like you do, then purchase a good bench that will serve you well and you can then start using it to it's fullest. I would contact Lie-Nielsen and see if they can come down off their shipping. That sounds brutal, unless they are going to personally deliver it and not use a shipping service. :)
Your mileage may vary.
Michael
Agomega,
After doing all the research I came to the conclusion that you need a good bench to build a good bench. So I bought the Ulmia Prof Bench from Garrett Wade and could not be happier.
Of all the tools I have purchased over the last 5 years it is hands down the best money spent.
No apologies here.
Mark
No apologies here.None needed... I made my first bench (I'd say turned out excellent) with my OLD Craftsman Radial Arm Saw,,, and a old rusty plane.. New blade though..Maybe when Craftsman made OK stuff? 196? or so and used recycled purpleheart mostly... 'Burnt' up a few blades though and ruined a few old chisels! I had FUN!EDIT:: As I recall that old plane just 'skidded' across that purpleheart.. I think my Crafstman belt sander did MOST of the hard work...
Edited 11/3/2005 8:23 am by WillGeorge
I agree with BG. Build a good cheap bench and learn what you need from a high end bench and build that one when you have some experience.
Some have suggested that when they priced the materials AND their time they found the expensive bench was about the same money. I just spent about 80 hours building my first piece of real furniture (not shop related) and if I counted my materials AND my time I could have bought a GOLD PLATED cd/dvd holder. This is just a justification for spending big$$. We really aren't in it to "price" our time.
After building this project I know the limitations of my plywood bench. It has two cheap vices and though they served the purpose some hefty vices will go on the next bench. I figure sometime in the spring I'll have enough hours under my belt to build a proper bench and much less than $1800 would buy all the bells and whistles material wise!
Another vote for build.
I had this same issue about 20 years ago, but since I had no money I decided to build a bench. I got a good deal on some maple and built the Tage Frid bench from a very early FWW. I love that bench and use it daily; it's a classic design and very functional. It was fun to build, just challenging enough for a beginner. Rick
if you've got the quid, buy the Lie-Nielsen. It's a top notch bench that'll be the only one you purchase in your life, and it'll outlive you. I've got one in my garage, use it, and haven't regretted spending the extra on it for a second. lol.
Build it yourself. I built mine the way I wanted it. Large, strong and multipupose. here is a link to my site and the plans for the one i built. http://www.hoistman.com/HoistMan/Workbench.html I used a couple unfinished Oak cabinets and total cost was about $200. Works perfect for benchtop power tools as in incorperates a "TOOL DOCK" type system, but can be built without that feature.
An possible alternative to buying one from a known manufacturer is to have one made by a local professional woodworker. If you find just the right person you will get a great bench to your specifications, help the local market, and make a friend (who happens to have some machinery).
Having moved several times and had to leave behind all kinds of cobbled up 2x6ish benchoids, after the last move, I decided to opt for a slightly more costly, but more dismantable unit.
took a little lookin, but I finally found a point of affordability (at that time) and it was using 3x10 hemlock shoring material. OK, not kiln dried, but massive enuf, and the price wasn't astronomic. This stuff came from the local contractors yard who supplies the folks who dig deep ditches, not yer local hyperborgstore who only supplies exquisitely grained timbers grown only on the southern slopes of some distant country.
If I recall, the stuff was what you'd call rough and ready, and "sorting through" the pile was an excercise in brute strength.
I ripped some of it in half to form 3x5 pieces for the trestles and strechers. These pieces were from timbers that had the heart of the tree right in the middle of the timber, so I could get as stable a timber as possible on resaw.
Trestle pieces were thickness planed, and using M&T joints, glued and pinned, stretchers tied to the trestles with bolts and pins (tightenable as the wood dried) from Lee Valley methinks and the top was two pieces of 3x12 with a 4" gap between them to form a trough for tools.
over the stretchers went a piece of plywood to set tool boxes on, for massivity and inertia. No porblems there, cause ya know what a tool box full of tools weighs eh?
The top is quite rough, and it is uneven, but the structure is sound, and doesn't move. I haven't had to tighten the bolts for years now. Someday the top will get replaced, It ain't used so much as a work surface but rather as a support for vices, and general flat space for accumulatus and general toolish bric-a-brac.
It is also not painful when I drill a hole in it to support a workpiece support, or otherwise dessecrate it (testing sharpness of planes, attaching stops etc with screws. The lack of flatness has been a PITA from time to time though. I guess I could be admonished for not being as compulsive as them folks in the magazines. (I never could understand why there were no shavings on the floors of their shops)
The top would be the drawback to the ebeniste or even a good cabinetmaker if it was the sole work surface, but in my case it ain't, and that being said, the massive tresselation being not only substantial, stable, and sound, but disporportionally economical in cost , it would let you put yer own top on it to suit yer own purposes without crippling yer economic style as much as a store-bought bench
. My cheapo bench don't sway when you put the muscle to the metal. I got no problems with it swaying if I decide to plane big wood on it.
Bottom line to my story is that if yer lookin fer timbers to make yer workbench from, look fer folks who sell timbers.
Eric in Cowtown
My first workbench was made of softwood selected for close grain and clear, knot-free grain. Legs were made from 2x4 stock and top was laminated from 2x6 stock. I added shelves and drawers for convenient storage and the added weight turned out to be a big bonus. I made vises from 3/4" pony clamps and learned to use winding sticks and a jack plane to level the bench top. Over the life of the bench I levelled it several times, each time learning something new about handplaning or plane iron sharpening. The workbench is so basic to woodworking that I cannot imagine learning hand tool use without building one's own bench. I have since progressed to better tools, techniques, an advanced bench (still handmade), and improved clamping; but the lessons learned on that first crude softwood bench taught me the basics: cut to a line, plane to a line, assemble square. Build your first bench, you won't regret it thirty years later. I certainly don't.
Edited 11/6/2005 8:49 pm ET by plumthicket
I have read through the preceding 61 postings, and felt that many good points were made in favor of building your bench. Cost, satisfaction and fitting personal needs are all valid considerations. What seemed to be understressed was the tremendous learning factor involved. I teach woodworking, and my first assignment for my students is to make a woodworking bench. In the process, one develops skill with a number of power and hand tools, learns to make a variety of basic joints, develops an understanding of wood characteristics, design considerations, proper sequence of construction, and a whole gambit to other abilities without the requirement of fine furniture perfection. And what you end up with is the single most important and frequently used tool in the work shop. It is the starting point of your learning curve against which all future progress can be measured. It teaches you to think like a woodworker. Who could ask for a better project.
Best regards,
Carl
For what its worth. I made my bench at the community college up here in the bay area. For lumber I used "free" recycled old growth doug fir framing lumber. It has a front vise and a sholder vise from Lee Vally and round dog holes. Having a sturdy flat bench is a very good thing. I am sure you would be pleased with the Lie Neilsen or the Ulima benches but if you save money by making your own you can buy more Lie Neilsen hand planes :). I also noticed some nice looking benches in the Tool Crib catolog.
Troy,If by "Bay Area" you mean San Francisco Bay, please tell me where I can get "free" douglas fir.Thanks,Todd
The "free" doug fir came from the roof joists of my house after I paid a contractor a huge sum of money to remove it to add a second floor. It would be worth talking to contractors who do that kind of work because the old wood usually ends up in a dumpster. Anyway nice wood if you can get it, hard as maple and very stable.Troy
Start easy. Buy a thick (2 1/4" I believe) maple top off of McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) and get their steel leg set with shelf and rear apron. It's inexpensive (relatively) and pretty sturdy, especially with the bottom shelf weighted down with all your tools, etc. Get a couple vices from Lee Valley. Now that you have a workable bench you can use it to make a better one as time and money allows. Add a front apron to the top and maybe a tail vise. Replace the leg set with a nice wood one and reuse the legset for a finishing table. The color of the wood top varies a bit more than it might if you did it yourself (there's usually some dark wood), but it's nice and heavy and can be at your door in three-four days.
Phil,
Save your money to buy lumber. Make your bench with the tools you have out of locally available lumber. I made my first bench out of fir 4x4's and some plywood. It has mortise and tenon joinery and I made it with a circular saw. I still use that bench all the time, even though I wound up making another bench a couple of years later. Buy a good vise, break out the tools and get to work. You will hone your skills while making something you will be very proud of. I'm sure you can build a bench with a good vise for about $500.
Good luck,
B.O.B.
I stumbled onto L-N's workbench visiting their storefront. After several visits I ordered one, & was able to drive down there to load it into my small truck. My neighbor & I carried it down my narrow cellar stairs without incident, after disassembling the under carriage. My bench is 7' long, with classic tail & quick-release shoulder vices. There is a tool tray, with removable tray bottom. I decided on the quick-release shoulder vice, because you can run boards both sides of the vice, length-wise. Of course with the Swedish style you don't need to worry about the vice wracking one side or the other, when you saw dovetails in narrow stock. It came with a set of metal & wooden bench dogs. I also made my own bench first, which still gets good use, but my skills aren't up to L-N's. This is a hand-me-down to my son, no question. I still think about the Swedish-style shoulder vice, though. Rob Cosman brought his own bench to L-N for a workshop, which features that style of shoulder vice. He used to make benches to sell, but said it was tough getting his time & money back. Hearing that tipped me towards buying L-N's bench. Its handmade in my home state, which was a factor, too. I wonder how much they make back on it, to be honest. I met the man who built it, when I arrived to pick it up. I feel lucky to have one & it makes a real difference sawing & chopping dovetails, & planing long runs of boards, over my home-built. Its rock-maple solid! The articles I've seen the last 6, 7 years in Fine Woodworking on work benches are inspiring. They seem to express the character & needs of the experts who designed & built them. Ian Kirby's bench, in a book I read, certainly fits that bill. If your choices end up costing the same, I'd go with the L-N. Their customer service is superb, to back it up.
I just came across a great looking unfinished walnut workbench in Home Depot for $129. It is not listed on the website, but it is in the store.
I have to echo most of the sentiments expressed so far. Dropping that kind of cash on a first bench, IMO, is crazy. I'd rather pick up some other hand tools, wood, etc.
Depending on how you work, or how you'd like to work, the bench can be fancy or simple. My workhorse bench is a piece of maple bowling alley about 60 x 36. It is 2-1/4" thick and is all on edge. The only issue is that it is not glued, but nailed with hardened spiral nails. The top weighs over 150 lbs and is on a four post frame built of 2x4s and 2x6s. I have a Record 53-1/2 on it. Coupled with some well placed 3/4" dog holes, it works well for me. It is in my basement and is my primary bench, since my garage is unheated at the time and gets cold (I live in NH) during the winter. I can dimension and plane pieces up to 4-5 feet on it and build nightstands, boxes, etc. It is also used for carving and inlay work.
Aside from the top, it cost around $50 for the wood. The top was a special find. A bowling alley was closing and my father had purchased 1800 linear feet of 41" wide bowling alley at a real bargin. Going with a full hardwood top is nice, but I primarily work on the first 12" or so of the front of the bench. I could see making that part from solid wood and use MDF, ply, or tempered hardboard for the rest. Check out Ian Kirby's torsion box bench for a different look at a bench. There is a chapter on it in "The Workbench Book" published by Taunton.
As for the shoulder vise, it's a personal preference. I have the HW for a Scandanavian one, but haven't had time to build the rest of a new bench yet. I'm putting a traditional tail vise on it as well, to experiment with.
As far as the cost of making your own bench, it is still cheaper than the options you list, even with using solid hardwood, nice vise(s), etc. You save in the labor (your's is "free") and shipping costs. Once the wood is dimensioned, (i.e. face jointed, planed, edge jointed, ripped, cross cut) the joinery can be done on your existing bench with hand tools or powered hand tools. The trickiest part is getting a solid wood top flat. If you go with an edge grain top, make sure you orient the grain so that it all points in the same direction. This makes truing the top with a hand plane much easier.
Best of luck,
-- Blue
Wow. Looks like the abundance of opinions here really confirms our obsession when it comes to workbenches!
Have you looked at the Lee Valley website? They have a ready-made bench with their infamous twinscrew vise and cast iron legs for about a grand. Apart from aesthetic, I don't see any real advantage of spending 2+ times that for an LN (except if you really cannot live without a sliding tail vise). I'd also definitely pick in over the Ulmia. The few I've seen aren't that impressive for the price.
That's the one I'd get if I could afford it with my graduate school stipend. For now, I'm back to pounding out the last mortise for my new workbench base. Building a bench by hand does take a long time!
The walnut workbench at homedepot is $129. I picked one up today. IT is made of solid walnut. The part number is 272-846. All you need to do is to assemble it and put a finish on.
A solid walnut bench for $129?...Hmmm,....I haven't been snipe hunting in a while, but I guess I'll rise to the bait. (To violently mix metaphors).
I don't think walnut would be a particularly good lumber to build a workbench out of but I'm curious, what are the dimensions of this solid walnut bench, atfsaw? Do you have a photo you can share?
Edited 10/30/2005 6:44 am by EdHarrison
Okay ED, I am just trying to give the man some options. I would build my own bench if time permitted. The dimensions of the surface:27" deep
60" wide
2" thickapprox 38-39" tall. See attached for a photo.I have no opinion on which wood makes a good workbench. I just need a solid surface to work on. I am tired of using my garage floor. I am sure there are a million ways to approach, this is just my time crunched approach. 8-)
Wow, that is pretty nifty for the money, atfsaw. That's a pretty cool option - can't hardly beat the price at all.
It doesn't look like the North American Black Walnut (Juglans nigra, described in FWW #58, Arno) that I'm used to working with (and paying a hefty price for, when I can't find a good deal), but that's neither here nor there. That's a good price for that bench, especially with a 2 " thick top.
There was a wood technology expert that used to post a lot on this forum who passed away last year - Jon Arno. I remember Mr. Arno saying the ideal qualities for a bench top might be a light, reflective color, close, even grain, and hardness and strength. I was just following along in that train of thought when I said that I wouldn't use walnut, that's all. I bang and beat the heck out of all three of my benches and resurface them about once every year or two - meaning plane a new surface on the top and finish with shellac. Walnut would be too fancy for me,..., besides being too open-grained and too dark.
Happy woodworking with your new bench - I might check my own Home Depot and see if they got one like you bought. Could be a quick Christmas present for my Dad or brother. Take care.
Damn where can I get one! I fell for it!
Go for it at that price.. If ya have to put some 3/4 inch thick Maple flooring on top of it!
I got it, it is sitting in my garage shop waiting for me. Home Depot does add value sometimes 8-)
Edited 10/31/2005 2:25 pm ET by atfsaw
Not too shabby!
I live at Home Depot....Wife even has orange pots & pans.....
Build yer own if you have the time.....plenty of good advice here from all
Geezer
#1
Build the bench yourself, Build mine like Tage Frid and love it
Tage Frid and Frak Klauzz similar benches.
What woodworker would go to another woodworker to have a bench build? "LOL"
save the $$$ and buy tool
Build it yourself and you will love it and learn ALOT
HM
This discussion never ends--build a bench or buy one? There is no correct answer. Building one is certainly a challenge and can be fun, but I'd rather build furniture.So I bought mine, modified it to suit my shop. I got three Veritas maple slabs, with the bench dog holes, and made myself an oversize bench with two vises and their leg set, although I had to make a new foot to acoomodate the extra width. Cost was about a grand shipped to my door, and about 2 hours to set it up.Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Hi Phil,
I too have never posted here before and since I don't see my point of view reflected...
The problem with discussing workbenches is that everybody uses them for different things. You really can't even ask the question "Should I build or buy?". Its unanswerable. You can't even ask "What's the best design?" My response might be "Best design for what? For whom?" You see what I mean?
Here are some things that may help you:
1) recognize that a workbench is a tool like any other. You must learn to use it, and no one seems to teach this skill
2) Bench designs flow from the needs of the user. If your needs are few, any bench will work. So when somebody recommends a bench, you need to know what that person REALLY uses it for/designed it for to determine if it will work for you.
3) Certain features of certain benches WILL hold you back. It would be a shame to pay a lot of money for a bench only to realize its inadequacies are preventing you from reaching the next level. Somebody may ask me for an example- length comes to mind. Build a long bench. Vises can be problematic, and they are rarely necessary. Height. I highly polished top can be an unfortunate disadvantage.
You just can't assume that workbenches you buy or see in some book or website will actually function for your needs.
If this doesn't make any sense, ping me offline and I'll try to explain myself better. Suffice it to say I was in your shoes (like many of us here) and I spent years spinning my wheels screwing around with workbenches. I'd hate for anyone to have that same experience.
Adam
Get yourself up and running by buying an affordable bench and invest in some good tools.
Check out http://www.edsal.com for their workbenches. You can get a Edsal butcher-block maple top bench that's 76"x36" with adjustable height legs for about $360 at http://www.grainger.com . Grainger part number 7D195.
Later on, when you want to build one you can cannibalize the top for your new bench.
There’s a Grainger not too far from you in Torrance so you could pick it up. It's 172lbs so bring a buddy to unload.
Grainger Branch: 431
23021 S. Normandie Ave.
Torrance, CA 90501-5037
Phone: (866) 486-7865
Fax: (877) 464-7647
Branch Hours: 7:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Build! You won't regret it.
Good Luck,
Jon
Edited 10/28/2005 3:34 pm ET by CPOJon
Palomar College offers a class each summer, during which students build workbenches; the cost is around $700, depending on the vises you buy. They're typically made from walnut and maple.
If you can't afford the time yourself, you might consider having one of the students build one for you - it isn't entirely unheard of. The components are produced by teams, and each student assembles his/her own bench from team-made parts. Each person makes his or her bench at the height that works best for them.
http://www.palomar.edu/woodworking
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Edited 10/29/2005 8:47 pm by jazzdogg
I started more serious woodworking when I was in college, living in an apartment, I had nothing but handtools and my only access to lumber was the local yard who sold construction materials and dimensional lumber, no hardwoods. I wanted a bench but it was going to have to be in our living-room! I considered building one with my fledgling skills out of 4 x 4s but my wife wouldn't have it.
I ended up buying a small Sjobergs bench, which looked nice in the living room (nicer than most of our furniture).
Having that bench really helped my woodworking. 25 years later I still use it all the time. I'm just now thinking about building my own, an adaptation of Frank Klausz's design with an Emmert Patternmaker's (clone) vice in place of the shoulder vise.
David C
My vote is build it! I am just today getting my vise on my bench. I worked for nearly 23 years on a bench that was all wood except the raceway for the tail vise, the screw and receiver on the side vise, through-bolts on the base, lags on the top end caps and various screws here and there. This bench like most others there at Amana Furniture Shop were over 120 years old, made of some soft wood like cottonwood or poplar and still going strong after all these years. I looked at various designs and didn't find anything I liked so came up with my own design. I found a 1 3/4" X 24" X 60" top on sale at Rockler in Ontario for about $120 and a large quick-release vise from Lee Valley also for about $120. I really didn't use the tail vise much so I don't plan on installing one. For the base I designed an offset leg arrangement to accomodate the vise and to give the bench more stability. I used 4 X 4's and 2 X 8's, 5/16" X 8" (from Lowe's) through-bolts and 2 drill jigs for the base. (About $300 to $350 so far?) And yes, without squaring anything except the ends of the 2 X 8's it all leveled out before I put the top on. One very important question: Why do you woodwork? If it's for the satisfaction of making something yourself then I would most definetly make as much of the bench myself as I could. If you get over to the "Inland Valley", I'm here in Temecula (on the I-15) and you can stop by and take a look yourself.
agomega
I would agree with all those who say to make it. I recently finished my first bench, which I made as a basic - quickie - bench. Quality birch ply laminated (four layers) for weight. 4x4 dimensional legs with 2x6 stretchers and aprons. You could easily build up the legs from 2-bys, which allow you to avoid having to make mortises by building the leg around the stretcher. For a quality top you could buy a butcher block slab.
Lee Valley, and others have tons of vises you can use. The choice of vice depends on how you imagine yourself working, and the type of work you intend to do. The book, "The Workbench", by Lon Schleining covers a lot of issues worth considering when building a bench. Maybe too many, but an issue I found worth pondering is the use of an apron, and if it should be flush with the edge of the top, or if the top should overhang. This affects how you clamp your work. You can do an amazing amount of work using dogs and clamps to secure your work.
While I doubt you would be unhappy with any of the high-end benches you are considering for purchase, I also think there is a lot to be said for building your own. By the way, I built mine with a circular saw, router, drill and chisels and it probably took me a weekend's worth of time. Good luck,
Charles
My bestest workbench is an old micro fiche filing cabinet I got for cheap, with some plywood glued on top, covered with leftover flooring. The top is 3"+ and dead level w/ no wind. I can use it to clamp up doors, and they come out square w/ no twist.
It does not rack nor wiggle, and holds lots of tools in those drawers. It isn't ugly, but it isn't the traditional woodworkers idea of good looking either.
I have one old monster of a Sears vise on one corner, that was given too me, and a Veritas that I got on Ebay on one end.
I have casters one one end and wheeled trailer jacks on the other end so it can be moved if I want to dedicate about half a day to the effort. It is all made out of cheap stuff that I scrounged or bought one piece at a time. I kick a couple of pieces of 2" pink foam under it when I let the jacks down, and it feels welded to the floor.
I built this one $10 here and $40 here. My student days are long ago and far away, but I have kids and grandkids, so I still know what it means to have to be frugal instead of being cheap, "just because I'm the Dad".
You can save for quite a while, or take out a loan for one of those you are wishing for, and then never be able to get your car in the garage, or you can piecemeal something that you imagineer, that will better fit your circumstances. The money you save might buy you a tablesaw or compound miter saw, or several routers, with enough leftover to buy some real nice wood, to make something to impress women with, which is the truest test there is of the quality of your product.
Any kind of dogs and dog hole work fine. If you make your own top out of castoffs, you can put some of each in there. Once it is all put together, round holes are easier to install after the fact, and round accessories are probably easier to find to by.
Square pegs are easier to knock out on the spot, as you come up with more needs.
Pipe clamps can take the place of vises in lots of circumstances.
Universities will have card cabinets to toss out on occasion. Flooring installers have scrap on occasion, or a bundle of oak flooring is less than $50 and will cover a 3'x7' top.
Lots of things you can do here. Catalogs are good for finding ideas, but take those ideas outside and play with them just a bit before you spend your money.
Has anyone else noticed that this spell checker doesn't think tablesaw is a real word?
Phil,
I would definately say make it. If you like working with your handtools wish I also do, leveling the wood for the top is not as hard as it appears. I used a bench made out of softwood I bought at Lowes in 1983. It worked great. For the legs laminate a couple or three 2x6's sawn and planned down to 4". One or two 2x6's used as braces and a top made from laminated MDF make an excellant bench. It will not look like a European model but it is extremely useful.
This served me well for many years.Three years ago I built a new one with hardwood and added some more elaborate vises. I saved my Record vise from the first one and used it on the new one. The old one is still in use by my son who rebuilds engines on it!
If you hand plane on it you need very sturdy legs which the first one provides very nicely. Doing your own bench is the only way to go if you want to become a good craftsman. If you pay $2000 for one now I think you will regret it later. That would buy a few hundred board feet of prime hardwood for another project.
These are tough choices. I am biased towards buying a bench for two reasons. First, it is easier to get started allowing you to focus on developing hand tool skills. Second, I rarely see an article in a magazine where someone has built a traditional style workbench without using another workbench.
I tested out the Lie-Nielsen workbench and thought about purchasing one. At the time they were't sure what the price was and were quoting a six month wait. It is a very nice bench and the removable tool try bottom is great for certain clamping scenarios.
That said I ended up buying a Deifenbach bench - the Traditional German style I believe. It is a very nice, solid bench, but the fit and finish is much lower that the Lie-Nielsen I saw. On the other hand, my bench was about $1000 less after shipping and in stock.
A couple thoughts from my own experience.
Buying a bench is a simple solution, and if time is an issue (and not $$) it may be right for you.
However, given that you have no bench currently, and need a work surface I would recommend you do what was mentioned above and get a solid core door, 36"x80" and a 2x4 leg kit from one of the 2 borgs (I buy mine from Home Depot). Total cost, less than $120 for lumber, door, and bench leg kit. If you prefer thicker and work with heavy projects, get 2 solid core doors and laminate them together. 2 doors 1.25" thick would make a $120 top that could take a LOT of abuse.
Now, the one thing I would NOT go cheap on is the vises. Many here can attest that a poor vise will be unsafe and cause you no end of frustration. There are many reputable vendors (be wary of the "new" record vices as the molds and name were bought by a lesser quality firm). One place you can find excellent vices for reasonable prices is Lee Valley.
You can add wood to the areas of the bench where the vices are to attach.
Net investment, $120 for the bench, $150-175 in vices (that you can use in your second bench attempt when you know what you want) and you've a very quickly serviceable bench.
This plan assumes you have or have access to a circular saw or hand saw, drill, and some basic tools.
minimalist and very functional. And, you can use it for an assembly table later after you build your 2nd bench.
You can't really go wrong w/ your choice here :) after all, the beauty of the craft is that you always learn and advance your skills... some lessons just cost more than others ;)
g'luck
michael
(be wary of the "new" record vices as the molds and name were bought by a lesser quality firm)
What is it that you think might be lacking in the Annat versions of the "Record" vices? I own both an original Record 52 1/2 and just picked up the Annat version for a new bench I'm making. They're not identical, but the Annat seems to live up to Highland Hardware's representation that they could find no appreciable differences. The screw threads are the same (undercut), the castings are the same, and the operation seems quite smooth. I suppose the metals used could be inferior grades, but that's not something that can be known without lab testing and whatnot. In short, I'd recommend the Annat vise to anyone looking for a good quick release (by lever rather than handle back turn like others).
The two that I have had experience with made by Annat had burrs on the screw and weren't as tight as my Record.
I realize that the statement did indeed sound a bit absolute... that wasn't my intent. It is possible that the units I had seen were made before Q/A were tightened up? I've heard enough mixed reviews that I made a generalization... I shouldn't have done that.
Of course, I prefer my front mount twin screw LV to the Record for most of my work I do.
Either way, investing in the vices is important I believe.
Michael
I was in your situation a few years ago, trying to decide whether to build a bench or buy one. One day I came across an old shuffle board table top. The legs and hardware were nowhere to be found. It was 14 feet long, 19 inches wide and almost 4 inches thick. I cut it in two and glued the two pieces together with a spline down the middle. I glued up some maple that I had and built the legs and frame. It is finished with tung oil sealer and paste wax. I added a front vise and round bench dogs from Lee Valley. It probably weighs between 400 and 500 pounds and is rock solid. It should last a lifetime.
I would look for a local woodworking club and seek the assistance of someone who is retired and has a shop with adequate space. I have found my fellow woodworkers to be very generous and willing to teach and assist. I suspect someone would be willing to allow usage of his workshop for this project, and perhaps assist with the technical details as you progress. Making your own is a great experience. I made mine as my third project 25 years ago after the design in Tage Frid’s three book series of woodworking fundamentals, profound sense of accomplishment when you’re done. The only thing I would change would be to update some of the vises to the newer more flexible versions available to day, and go with round wooden dogs over square steel. Also, build the bench higher for less bending; you’ll appreciate it as you get older.
Your first workbench will most certainly NOT be your last! As your skills progress, you will begin to understand your own needs. No commercial bench, regardless of price or quality can predict your woodworking style and need. If you spend thousands on a bench, only to discover 2 years down the road that it doesnt have the fixtures you require - based on your style of work - then you have nothing more then a really expensive countertop.
A bench is very much a primary shop tool. It's used even more then a tablesaw! When I attended a woodworking school, the very first thing we had to build was a hand plane made from scrapwood. This plane would be required to be used throughout the course. You can imagine my anxiety. What if I messed it up? All my project that followed would be hopelessly flawed because I didnt have what it took to make the first project!
But, I learned quickly that if you approach formitable projects from the angle of - "I need to do it, and do it to the best of my ability" - I think you'll be pleasently surprised how 'able' you really are!!
Spending $1800 on a bench? Not me. In fact, I dont know many pro's that would do such a thing. As previously suggested, set a budget between $500-750 for a good solid bench, including vices and dogs. It's a very realistic number when you factor in the cost of beech, or hard maple stock.
Best of luck!
Tim
If you're already confident in your woodworking skills and confident in your ability to build beautiful furniture there is no reason to worry about building your own bench if you don't feel like it. It's just another tool. Did you make all your handplanes, saws, chisels, etc.?
The bench as 'right of passage' is way overblown.
Building every single shop furnishing you use cuts into the time you could have spent building something for your home. I've seen more than one great shop sitting behind a home containing almost all store-bought furniture.
Buy a bench and take on another complicated project, say a chair or two, with the time you saved.
It's worth considering.
Edited 11/8/2005 1:40 pm ET by BossCrunk
If you're already confident in your woodworking skills and confident in your ability to build beautiful furniture there is no reason to worry about building your own bench if you don't feel like it. It's just another tool. Did you make all your handplanes, saws, chisels, etc.?
Fair enough. But if your skill and confidence are up to building a bench, why not do it and save the money.
The bench as 'right of passage' is way overblown.
Agreed.
Building every single shop furnishing you use cuts into the time you could have spent building something for your home. I've seen more than one great shop sitting behind a home containing almost all store-bought furniture.
On the flip side every single shop furnishing you buy cuts into the money you could have spent to buy the wood you need to build the furniture. Benches and router tables come to mind as highly overpriced items.
Buy a bench and take on another complicated project, say a chair or two, with the time you saved.
I say build a bench, nothing too complicated, and use the money you saved to pay for your next project. A simple sturdy bench will do the trick.
It's worth considering.
Agreed.
Of course my post assumes he tackled a difficult bench. I agree something out of 2x4s and MDF can be banged together in a day or so and be quite effective. However, this is not the 'make or buy' decision the original poster was talking about (see the benches he is considering buying).
A bench is a tool like any other. Few, if any of us, make every single tool we use.
Of course my post assumes he tackled a difficult bench. I agree something out of 2x4s and MDF can be banged together in a day or so and be quite effective. However, this is not the 'make or buy' decision the original poster was talking about (see the benches he is considering buying).
Yes, it's been alog thread. Looking back I remember he is looking at some heafty benches. I can see your point.
A bench is a tool like any other. Few, if any of us, make every single tool we use.
A bench is a tool. When bought pre-built an extreamly overpriced tool. I guess what I'm trying to get at is: Why would anybody who enjoys making things out of wood, pay for someone else to make something for them?
A chair for the house, a workbench for the shop... it's all woodworking. It's all something that you can take pride in the fact that you built it with your own two hands.
Overpriced? By whose definition?
I know a physician and quite an accomplished woodworker who bought his bench. He has precious little time to make the chairs he enjoys making. Dropping a thousand bucks or so was an easy decision to make, given the value of his time. He wanted to build chairs, not workbenches and shop shelves.
So he didn't build his bench and yes, it is made out of wood. He doesn't fell his own trees nor run his own sawmill and drying operation either. From time to time, he will even have rough stock skim planed or maybe straightlined. Is there fault to be found here? Where does this stop?
I've always sweated projects that came out of the workshop a lot more than the ones that stayed in it. The best way to learn furnituremaking is to build the furniture one is interested in making. My friend wanted to build chairs, so the first project he built was a chair. Before he started I thought it was audacious. I didn't think so when I saw the completed chair. I recommended he build a candlebox or something like that as a first project. We still laugh about that.
Edited 11/9/2005 1:04 pm ET by BossCrunk
This has kind of taken a turn away from the original posters question but...
Overpriced? By whose definition?
By my definition. Spending $1000 on $200 worth of wood to me is overpriced.I know a physician...
I'm sure a physician and I will disagree on many things regarding what is overpriced or not. I do not want to build workbench just one, for me. I don't necessarily want to build shelves either, but I sometimes do. Why? Because it's good financial sense. But that's my opinion. I'd rather spend my money on wood for more projects, or other investments.
He doesn't fell his own trees nor run his own sawmill and drying operation either. <cut> Is there fault to be found here? Where does this stop?
What argument are you setting up here? If I remember correctly this is a 'strawman argument', an unrelated argument set up just so you can knock it down to support your position. I think it's reasonable to expect that a woodworker would build some of his own shop equipment. Shelves, shop tables and benches are an example of things woodworkers have the skill to build easily and cheaply.
I've always sweated projects that came out of the workshop a lot more than the ones that stayed in it.
So, I only sent a little time finishing my shop shelves. This has nothing to do with the argument.
The best way to learn furniture making is to build the furniture one is interested in making.
What is the difference between a dovetail on a bench, and a dovetail on a drawer? How about the difference between the mortise and tenon on the bench legs, and that on a table? How about the dado on your shop shelves, and the ones on a bookcase? All the experience is relevant. I'm interested in all types of furniture, not just one thing. I doubt I'll ever build just chairs, or just tables. So any experience is good experience.
I'm glad everything has worked out for your friend. Chairs are challenging to build, I would tell my fiends the same thing. The nerve of some people! To do challenging work and succeed on the first try... It's no wonder he's a physician. :)
By my definition. Spending $1000 on $2000 worth of wood to me is overpriced.
Get out of the hobby now while you can.
What is the difference between a dovetail on a bench, and a dovetail on a drawer?
Presumably, the workbench is in your shop and the drawer is in a case piece in your home. If the difference is not meaningful, or apparent, then I can't help.
I've always sweated projects that came out of the workshop a lot more than the ones that stayed in it.
So, I only sent a little time finishing my shop shelves. This has nothing to do with the argument.
You're kidding, right? This IS the argument. Shelving, eh?
The best way to learn furniture making is to build the furniture one is interested in making.
What is the difference between a dovetail on a bench, and a dovetail on a drawer? How about the difference between the mortise and tenon on the bench legs, and that on a table? How about the dado on your shop shelves, and the ones on a bookcase? All the experience is relevant. I'm interested in all types of furniture, not just one thing. I doubt I'll ever build just chairs, or just tables. So any experience is good experience.
Have you actually built any furniture?
I'm glad everything has worked out for your friend. Chairs are challenging to build, I would tell my fiends the same thing. The nerve of some people! To do challenging work and succeed on the first try... It's no wonder he's a physician. :)
You may need to re-think your notion of how to learn woodworking. My friend wanted to build a chair so he built a chair. He changed my way of thinking about how somebody new to the craft should approach learning. He built what interested him. Workbenches only interested him to the extent that he knew he needed one. Just like he needed pencils, paper, saws, and chisels. He came to the hobby with no preconceived notions that the way to learn was to spend two years building shop furnishings before he went 'live.' One can avoid the knife at one's throat only so long. You won't learn woodworking *well* building disposables for your shop whose flaws are easily hidden. Hang it out there, bite off more than you can chew, spend a lot of money on some interesting wood and proceed to make something with it.
The guilds are long gone and you don't have to serve an apprenticeship to yourself.
Give your gonads a workout. They'll thank you for it.
Edited 11/9/2005 4:56 pm ET by BossCrunk
Wow! You're really trying to drag us away from our original topic of weather a woodworker should build or buy a bench.
By my definition. Spending $1000 on $2000 worth of wood to me is overpriced.
Get out of the hobby now while you can.
Why did you change the quote? Since you have changed it I can only assume this is an attempt at a joke. Spending $1000 on $200 worth of wood is not a good deal.
Presumably, the workbench is in your shop and the drawer is in a case piece in your home. If the difference is not meaningful, or apparent, then I can't help.
Is this a joke as well? So the geographic location of the dovetail determines how it is made? The geographic location that the piece will end up determines what you learn from it?
So, I only sent a little time finishing my shop shelves. This has nothing to do with the argument.
You're kidding, right? This IS the argument. Shelving, eh?
No the argument is if one should build or buy a bench (or shop equipment). How much work one puts into finishing shop equipment is irrelevant. The fact that you put more work into something that leave your shop is also irrelevant to the original argument. I would hope that someone who builds a bench would finish it appropriately. And since you asked yes I did build some shelves for my shop.
Have you actually built any furniture?
Yes. I build furniture for myself, my family, and my friends. I make what I feel like making at the time, or what I need. I work wood because I enjoy the art. I enjoy creating things. I enjoy the challenge.
Rather than question my experience, use your own to explain the difference between the examples I pointed out. Your experience will hold more substance.You may need to re-think your notion of how to learn woodworking.
First, I must apologize. I was trying to lighten up the tone a little, but obviously I failed. I admire your friend for rising to the challenge, as he has obviously done throughout his life (being a physician and all).
Second, I have to remind you again what this thread is about: Whether someone should buy or build a workbench (or shop equipment). The thread is not about learning woodworking. You brought up the topic of learning by stating: The best way to learn furniture making is to build the furniture one is interested in making. Again this is a strawman argument. You won't learn woodworking *well* building disposables for your shop whose flaws are easily hidden.
So a workbench is a disposable? I think not, for surely if you spend $2500 for the Lie-Nielsen model or $1000 on wood to build one. I agree that building shop equipment can only take you so far.
Give your gonads a workout. They'll thank you for it.
Look I'm sorry you can not put together a decent argument to save your position, but please try to be mature. This type of thing is uncalled for.
First, Buster, you da man. I think your points are well-taken and well stated.
Second, I'll tell you how much I'm willing to bite off: I think I can make a better bench than I can buy (and I don't just mean for the money either). It will be better in that it will be tailored to meet my exact needs and preferences.
And, separate and apart from that, I will take great satisfaction from working on the product of my own hands while making future projects.
Thanks. I was trying to avoid getting caught up in these side arguments that seem to happen on forums. People always seem to talk around the central issue, claiming side victories
I wish you luck on your bench building experience. I'm currently building one, and went through the whole process of buy vs. build. The pros very build are far past the pros for buy.
Personally I think woodworkers, particularly for new woodworkers, you'll get more from building your bench than buying. If nothing else you'll save yourself $2000, which is not a small chunk of change. When you're trying to buy that router, or bandsaw...
In the end though it is a personal choice. My woodworking mentor recently bought a bench. It'll cost him $3000 (cdn) when it's all done. To me that just a lot of money to be spending on something with a little time you could do yourself. But hey what can you do.
Again good luck.
It pains me a bit to agree with crunk as he can be a jerk, but as perhaps one of the poorest and probably THE cheapest bastard on this board, I don't blame a guy one bit for buying a bench. Climb down of the noble crate you are standing on and don't forget it was only nailed together.
If building benches is your hobby, great, start building them. Most here can't even bring themselves to buy anything used but you want a smack a guy down for not wanting to build a workbench? Give me a break! Do you make your own chisel handles? Real craftsman who care do...
We should all take a deep breath, the only thing that counts here is enjoying ourselves, what we actually produce comes a distant second, and frankly, I don't care what your shop furniture looks like.
Climb down of the noble crate you are standing on and don't forget it was only nailed together.
No no no! You forget in my shop the crate is dovetailed! (Just kidding) Point taken.
I didn't mean to sound to preachy I think my original post to Bosscrunk put my opinion best. Build the bench save the money for real projects, it has nothing to do with craftsmanship. Take it or leave it, it's my opinion.
I recently went through this process. Build or buy. My answer came from the Sjoberg Cabinetmakers Workbench offered by Lee Valley for $590 (Cdn). The top was 53" long, 21" deep, 1" thick. Made from beech. For $250 I was able to put together a top 72" long, 23"deep and 2" thick made from Hard Maple. Add another say $150 for the base, and $200 for the vises $50 for bench pups and I'm sitting at $650. About the same price for a larger heavier bench, that has heavier vises and a little Buster built into it.
But that's me.
Anyway, good luck with your projects.
These arguments about building a workbench or not rage on and on. I guess it all depends on your point of view. Personally I'd never waste my time building an all singing, all dancing tool like a bench. I buy good quality benches if and when they're needed but I have been known to knock out cheap as chips work tables, workshop cabinets, shelving and the like.
I find the argument that $200 worth of wood turning into a $2000 bench being overpriced fallacious. That seems to contain a more than fair labour charge and mark up for profit to me, but then my woodworking is driven by the fact that it's my living, and has been for over thirty years. Sure I could buy all the parts for perhaps £500 and spend maybe only 60 hours making at my workshop rate of £50 an hour and all of a sudden I've got a workbench that's cost me £3500, plus the down time when I could have been doing something profitable, like making furniture, doing some consultancy work, writing an article, and so on.
It doesn't make economic sense for me. Apart from that building a workbench for myself is a yawn inducing project. A bench-- big deal. I've probably seen hundreds of 'em and might have used almost as many too. I'd rather take on an interesting furniture making challenge that involves me getting paid for it at the end..
Many will argue that time is free so I shouldn't charge for it, but I don't buy that argument because my hobby is not furniture making. My hobbies are rugby, cycling, reading, etc., and, er, well, perhaps piddling about a bit wasting my time for light entertainment on woodworking forums. I have no significant interest in furniture making outside my work. I'm more than happy to get away from it because it's stressful and I want a break like everyone else, hence my hobbies.
On the other hand, if your hobby is woodworking, I can see it often makes sense to build a bench as long as you've got the necessary skills or are willing to acquire the necessary skills. There is a considerable saving of course because you only have to buy the materials and time spent on your hobby is free just like my time on the rugby pitch costs nothing either--- although there is a certain requirement to buy the necessary beer that serves as the raw product of all serious rugby hobbiests, ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/10/2005 3:55 am by SgianDubh
BossCrunk,
There is another aspect to this decision that isn't being discussed...and, I beleive, the orginal poster is asking too. Agomega is in an apartment with a one car garage..and no stationary equipment. My shop is about the same size...I stick an 8' monster in that space, no matter how much I love it, and I'm out of business. It has to go in the center of the room for access and the top is always loaded with wood and tools.
Relative to a learning curve and functioning efficiently, I'd prefer a scandinavian (sp?) style maybe 5'x22" and have flexililty in my small space. It takes a while for an individual to figure out what they need and what'll work best in their environment...
You should consider making or buying a Festo-style workbench. That being said I have the lee Valley bench and it's fine. But take a look at the Festo system, above all its dust collection capability. There's a lengthy discussion on their website under "tips". Search under "festool" and it will come up...
SS
It's funny you should post this now. Just yesterday I was looking at my bench thinking about every step I took building it. I bought the lumber for it from the local sawyer and let it dry in my basement shop for a year. I can remember the stickered maple slabs (12x12x4) laying under the lumber rack. they cost me $40. I made the stretchers from white oak bought from the same source. These cost me $40. The rest was my time, in the shop, working on a project. It just doesn't get any better than that. Every time I look at that bench I get a great sense of satisfaction. More than any other piece I have built since. You choose.....
TDF
Have you made a decision on your workbench yet? You mentioned you were woodworking in a one-car garage. From someone who has taken over his garage I would recommend designing to always allow room for your car. Yes, mine can no longer fit. Perhaps something along the wall or fold-down workbench. I made my first workbench from a Birch solid-core door and 2 X 4's. It cost $25.00 from a salvage company. Its now my Lathe Table. I have a plan for a wall mounted tool chest if interested.
Good Luck,
WW3301
Hi - have been woodworking for about 50 years, and have used all sorts of workbenches, and have left one built-in wall-mounted bench in each house we've lived in (7). Buy it, build it, you pick it. If it works for you (and as several folks have mentioned, bench height is critical here) it will be a fun bench.
Slightly off the subject - three houses ago I was in a furnace room along a wall with no vise. Got used to using clamps on a flat-top bench, and haven't had a vise since. More flexible, more innovative ways of clamping and haven't really missed vises.
Do have a metal-working vise that is mounted on 2" oak board that I clamp to my current 8' x 2' bench when i need to work with pipe, etc.
Suggest reading Jim Tolpin's book on Workbenches if you still have time before you build/buy. If you have more money than time, then go for the ready-made bench; they wouldn't be selling them if they weren't any good.
Getting ready to help my son build his "good" bench, so we are really facing the same questions. Keep in touch.
Hi Phil
Well where to start, at the moment I'm taking a 12 month course with Nicholas Chandler in Seville, Spain and our first project you guessed it work bench. First I made the drawing then brought the timber, I used Iroko because its very stable and after the course I'm moving to Brazil. I never though when I started out that it would be possible to make this bench as I have allways want to get into woodwork but never though I had the patience. Well 2 months later my bench is complete and I'm so pleased with it. Everything has been hand cut, Legs and support rails and the top laminated for strenght and stablity, I have two vices, one front and end vice all made by hand, even the dogs I have planed round for square stock. I can't tell you how proud I am of my bench its solid and looks great, I know I have had the use of power tool to reduce the size of timber quickly but still had to finish off with the hand plane before laminating, I think it a great learning curve I've learnt so much just making the bench, now its onto my next project. If you would like to see my bench for some ideas let me know I'll mail you a picture. Really Phil draw what you want and make it yourself you will be glad you did, good luck in the future
regards Stuart
Edited 11/13/2005 6:40 am ET by Knobon
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