I have a bunch of Ash that I got cheap and I milled it all down to a finished size for a bench…but I can always use it for something else, the dimensions are 3″x3″.
Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn’t use this to make a workbench?
Thanks,
erik.
Replies
Yes.
You should send the lumber to me.
Ash is much like white oak, with a consistent grain and has great strength, especially "spring" strength. So it's used for garden implements, baseball bats, etc.
As far as splinters, doug fir is the real one to watch out for. With ash, just plane it or sand it up to 220 or so, should have no problems.
I was told it splinters too easily for a workbench.
Alan - planesaw
alright, i guess it is good firewood at any rate.
thanks,erik.
Ash should make a fine bench. When cross cutting, a sharp blade is advisable. Ash is tough!Cadiddlehopper
With all due respect (and I mean that), it's best to post things you've learned rather than things you've been told. A lot of hearsay is wrong and posting it has a tendency to propagate it.I've made mallet heads and all kinds of stuff out of ash. I pound on it all the time with no splinters. I really like ash finished with tung oil for tool applications. Thos Moser uses ash for drawer interiors. I'd love to have 3X3 solid ash for building a bench.Pete
Well Pete, that's why I qualified what I said with a "I have heard..." That means it may or may not be true, but may be a heads up and worth some further investigation. I "heard" it from someone who, when he was living, was considered one of the leading experts on wood. But then, maybe he was playing between a level of preferences.
Sometimes a lead simply helps one learn what questions need to be asked.
With your logic, I assume you believe everything you read on tombstones. The information is written as a declaritive statement so it must be true? Having done a bit of genealogical work, I learned a long time ago not to trust them. Believe them until I learn something different. Or get a hint that one may be wrong.
Just because you have had success using ash in your applications still doesn't prove it best for workbenches.
I understand your point. And I do think it is overstated. I would think it would have been better had you said something like, "Alan, in my experience, making mallet heads and all kinds of stuff out of ash, I have been able to pound on it all the time with no splinters. I really like ash finished with tung oil for tool applications. And, Thos Moser uses ash for drawer interiors." That would seem to be sufficient. You have then shared your experience with the readers.
To further illustrate my point, just read the thread on Laguna. People with experience, what they know to be true, are on opposite sides of the issue. If you had a bad experiece with Laguna equipment and their customer service, then you "know" them to be horrible. If you love their equipment and have had no problems, or they reimbursed you for your problem with a smile, then you know they have excellent customer service and stand behind their equipment.
Oh well, more than 'nuff said.
Alan - planesaw
Edited 9/1/2006 10:44 pm ET by Planesaw
> I understand your point. And I do think it is overstated. Perhaps. My sense lately is that Knots has more than its share of "I have no idea, but I'm gonna post anyway" material. In fairness, your post was identified as something you've heard, and some readers may find that useful.Pete
Maybe I should have quoted the source -- Jon Arno. If Jon Arno said it, I am going to use that information until somebody proves his advice wrong. If Jon said one should use something other than ash, then why would I waste time, and the ash, using it! I haven't heard that anyone has taken's Jon's place here at Knots when it comes to his scientific, and practical, knowledge of wood.
Knots is no different than the rest of the world. People say things that are totally wrong sometimes and totally right sometimes. If Sarge (now Sargegrinder47) or pzgren, or 9619, joinerswork, derekcohen, or any number of others says something I am going to take serious notice of what they say. I may not agree with them, I may understand what they say but because of my talent or resources do something different -- but when they (or others whose experience I have come to know) say something, it makes sense to listen and throw their idea into the hat to be considered.
Hope you don't get too much rain from Ernesto.
Alan - planesaw
mowog77,
I built a three inch thick by seven foot ash workbench in 1982 because I didn't know any better. I put maple legs and stretchers on it for the same reason. It sits in my full-time production workshop to this day still as flat and perfect and reliable as the day I built it. It is, and always has been the flattest surface in my shop, and you couldn't choose a better species out of which to build a workbench. And that is from real life experience. Good luck.
OK here is an update...I am second-guessing the Ash decision.
I might just build the base from Ash and the top from Maple or Beech.
What are opinions on Beech?
I can get some 6/4 Beech at a good price for the tabletop...is 1 1/2" enough thickness for a benchtop????
thanks,
erik.
Geez, man!
Just pick any one of those and start working. Put the three names up on a wall and throw a dart.
Opinions? You'll get opinions all day long. They're like you know what . . .
Edited 9/29/2006 12:40 pm ET by Rich14
I've never heard of a workbench made of beech...
Edited 9/29/2006 12:53 pm ET by Buster2000
European benches commonly use (European) beech. It's a good choice, but its use is primarily due to its availability.
I was joking.
Maple and Beech are both heavy and hard, which are good qualities for a bench top. That said, pretty much any hardwood can be used. Unless the bech is going to be used purely as a showpeice, I think the OP should just build the bench with whatever dense hardwood he can find affordably.
Although I think amateurs, like myself, should just build their bench (purely for economic reasons) I think we aim too high. The bench is a tool. Build it strong and sturdy and get on to building other things.
Buster,
Sorry, I missed the sarcasm!
Rich
...what Rich said.......................
Ash is far prettier IMO and is becoming endangered. Think of how unique an ash bench would be if ash goes by the way of the chestnut and elm.
Endangered?Pete
Yes...unfortunately the emeral ash borer is wreaking havoc among the US population of ash. I don't know if it will ever get as bad as elm or chestnut, but it makes me consider using ash just because it may be a novelty in coming years.http://www.na.fs.fed.us/fhp/eab/http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/ep/eab/http://www.emeraldashborer.org/
That first link says:
"If the ash tree population is completely decimated by the ash borer, the stored seeds can be used to re-establish the ash tree for future generations."I would have thought that if the ash tree population was completely decimated we'd still have 90% left.Plenty of ash in this part of France, lots of really good walnut, and you can't move for chestnut.
Ash makes a splendid top for a bench. I made two benches of it. It is fantastically hard. It does't move much. It stays realtively flat. It has never splintered. It was also realtively cheap.
I planed mine flat and I put a quick shellac finish on it twice a year to keep it pretty and to keep the glue drips from sticking.
Regards,
Frank
Here it is:
My friend built his bench out of ash. No problems. I was going to do mine out of ash but they didn't have the right quantity when I went to pick it up (and so I got maple on the cheap). I recently received some 12/4 ash for helping out a woodworking friend, and his suggestion was to make a bench out of it. Considering it is available and cheap, I don't think its uncommon.
Planesaw noted that it splinters. From my experience it mills flat nice, and can be worked easily. The only time I've seen it splinter was when a friend was trying to hand carve out a seat on a chair using a gouge.
I built an entire living room set out of ash. (couldn't get oak in the 12/4 size I needed for the design). Lots of exposed wood. We used that furniture for a long time and it was very durable (and attractive, I might add).
Never got a splinter.
Use the ash for your work bench. It'll do just fine.
Rich
Several years ago I went to our local mill planning to pick up a bunch of ash cheap (they are dropping like flies hearabouts :-( ) for a bench.
"Nope, sorry, people want it for firewood..." I still can't believe it.
mowog77,
I decided to check a couple of references on ash. Sure enough I read several statements about how ash has a very long fibre, so splintering can be a problem...
Now, at the same time, descriptions also describe ash as other woods are stronger, but ash has a high weight to strength ratio.
Clearly ash is used in a lot of things. And clearly you can make a workbench out of ash. I am certain you would not be the first.
The individual advising me was basically saying that if you are planning on make a workbench that will be the one you hope to use for a lifetime, don't use ash, there are better woods.
Furthermore, I am not aware of commercially available workbenchs being made with ash. Beech and maple, yes.
It is not a right or wrong, thing. As much as anything it is what you like, what wood you want to use, etc.
Enjoy whatever you decide.
Alan - planesaw
Alan,
Here is a factet or two, from my experience, that may help illuminate the "ash, is it splintery" issue:
When I make furniture out of dried ash planks, it cuts and otherwise works without splintering anymore than other open-grained, fibrous hardwoods, if sharp tools are used. Bits of wood don't break off corners and so forth in any way that is worse than with other fibrous woods.
However, if you make something out of green ash (or for that matter green oak) the fibrous nature of the stuff makes it very difficult to chop without splintering. It will tear easily when ripped and it is very difficult to chop a mortise in it without lots of splintery bits. You can see why it bends easily but also just how fibrous it is.
Finally, if you use a dry lump of ash as a knocker (a thumping hammer for a froe or other tool you hit hard) the dry ash will splinter a lot more than most other woods, even oak.
[Now for the wild guess, rather than the experience..... :-) ]
So, I imagine an ash bench is OK as long as you don't work in a way that involves hitting its surface or edges a lot with hard blows....? You can see why a closer grained timber like maple or beech might be better for something like a bench, if that bench will receive clunks from hammer, chisel, plane-corner or whatever. Beech dents, ash splinters....?
Lataxe
This discussion came up several years ago when Mr. Jon Arno was around to lend a helping hand on wood properties. I believe the gentleman asking eventually used ash for the base and made the top from maple or beech which rendered a well thought out compromise that took advantage of the ash he had on hand.
Regards...
SARGE..
I made my last bench the same way, Ash for base and hard Maple for top. I have also used pine and oak when I first started making benches. Use what ever you can get and afford. If it don't work out, make another and give the last to a happy receiver. No on ever has refused a bench yet!
And I agree, Oldtool. I've made a lot work-benches and assembly tables during summers at others request (an a little cash thrown in). The material is based on what they can afford, but the joinery is never compromised. The end result is they all seem to work just fine with good joinery and proper design.
I wouldn't hesitate to use southern yellow pine or Douglas fir for a base as I believe the word soft-wood is sometimes mis-interpreted in relation to strength and durability.
I personally believe Ash is an excellent choice for a base also, but I personally wouldn't use it for a top as I often as a child watched Appalachian basket makers pound the tangent face of ash early-wood to get the thin early-wood layers to strip off easily to use for basket strips. They didn't seem to exert a lot of effort in achieving their goal and that relates to not my personal choice for the top if it will take any heavy pounding.
Regards...
SARGE..
I did the same recently - ex 3 inch ash frame for the base and 2.5 inch maple for the top. I worried for a while as to how to attach the top to the base. Gravity does just fine.
Same here. My bench is 26 x 60 and 4 inches deep setting on two 1/2 inch oak dowels. I dont know what it weighs, but it takes two men to left off the top. I thought I might move it so I made it in two pieces. I love it, the size and everything about it. As I recall the ash was almost nothing in 3x5 timbers from a saw mill, but they had a lot of all sizes. I think it is uses mostly for moving timber, pole barns, etc. We have been buying just about what we wanted this summer for less that $1.00 a bf. We bought 200 of spalted maple for 27 cents a foot, ash was 33, and walnut, cherry, and red oak was $1.00 and it was milled to 3/4. The above came from a small amish two man mill that saws what ever someone bring in. I am drying the maple and ash for a year. Normally the walnut and cherry goes for 3-4 bucks.
Sarge,
I wonder when those slowcoaches at Taunton are going to get that book published containing the collected wisdom of Jon Arno on timber? I loved all his articles in FWW concerning various timbers and learnt more from them than from any of the half dozen books I have that are supposedly dedicated to describing cabinet making woods.
Many others in Knots have expressed admiration for Jon Arno's writings and it would be a Good Thing to have them all collected in a single volume, priced $19.99 (discounted at Amazon to $15.37) inclusive of lots of colour photos to illustrate the knowledgeable texts.
Lataxe, a bookworm
Evening Lataxe..
I have pure admiration for the the man. He was a "man's man". I must have e-mailed him over 30-40 times with personal questions over the course of two years. He never mentioned once on-line or e-mail that he was very sick. But.. he did answer each and every e-mail with detail until his final departure earning my utmost respect. He continued en-lightening us when most would have sought recluse.
A salute to a truly remarkable orator and man till he drew the final breath...
Cheers...
SARGE..
Ash has been the wood if choice for baseball bats, hockey sticks, oars, arrows, etc. because of it's density to weight ratio. With the tangent surface face glued and the edge grain becoming the surface of a bench top, I would use it but it wouldn't be my first choice. As any ring porous wood that has large pores in the earlywood, the layers do have a tendency to separate when striking a weak point in the tangent face. Ask a pro baseball or hockey player.
http://www.thomasjduffy.com/bats.htm
"Bats have been tapered to different sizes over the years and in the modern days they have become shorter and lighter. But never more durable. Statistics show that major leaguers average 72 bats per player per year, and the expense of replacing bats has allowed aluminum to replace wood as the substance of choice in youth leagues, high school and colleges"....
"Maple has proven to last 30 times longer than other types of wooden bats and the "SamBat" offers a bigger sweetspot than the ash bats"...
Interesting article on a couple of wood-workers that are on the verge of breaking new ground in baseball.
And of course, I'm not telling anyone what to use in their bench top, nor did Jon Arno when this came up before. MDF or plywood would and will work for that matter. Just presenting some known properties of wood to ponder so each can make their personal decision based on what and how much they have to work with. :>)
Regards...
SARGE..
I have never been one to pass on a nice piece of ash:)
Sorry, it was a perfect set up!
Bob
Hey Sarge, nice post. Although my base is ash, my top will be maple.
Ash was a popular choice with the makers of motor vehicle body frames becuase it is strong and flexible. Since it is also quite hard and reasonably stable , with good weight too, I would think it would be just fine for a work bench, top and all.After all one is supposed to work on the bench top , not into it.Philip Marcou
Sarge,
I gotta disagree. Gluing up baseball bats into a workbench is not such a hot idea...I mean, think of the agruements, lable up / lable down for additional strength...gees.(he, he)
That brought back fond memories of little and pony league baseball, BG. Instances of the bat head flying farther than the ball and on the way to first base with the "snubbed" handle in your hand. Another one bites the dust bin.
I suppose the remnants could be used as tent pegs or re-cycled and sent to Transylvania for further use at full moon now that we have become more waste sensitive. :>)
Regards...
SARGE..
Sarge,
Great website. And I loved their text which says,
The Sam Bat is a superior bat because it is made of better wood. Until now, wooden bats have routinely used ash, which chips, dents, splinters and breaks far more easily. Ash bat manufacturers have benefited from the repeat business; ballplayers who used the ash bats were given no option.
Now they have a choice.
And, by the way, I love my new Powermatic mortiser. The cradle is finished and awaiting a new granddaughter.
Alan - planesawn CAN 1
Mahogany CAN 1
Hickory CD 1
Where did you find the bench model, Alan? You rarely see the PM bench except on the PM web-site. And I'm sure the daughters and grand daughters appreciate your efforts.
Regards...
SARGE..
My local Woodcraft carries PM, although they didn't have one in stock. I was over in Columbus, OH at a meeting and bought one from Woodwerks Supply. They serve people from garage shops to fulltime professional woodworkers.
http://www.woodwerks.com/
On several occasions when I have been in Columbus I have stopped in Woodwerks on my way out of town. I have to tie my mouth shut to keep from drooling on all the equipment.
Alan - planesaw
I understand strength-to-weight ratio. I understand the difference in density & weight. Can you explain density to weight ratio, please?Cadiddlehopper
Basically CH, a typo error in haste as strengh to weight ratio would have been better wording. Remember I'm no "Arno". :>) From what I have read, the ash has a far smaller moisture content in the sapwood compared to maple or oak when felled. It drys very quickly for that reason and with it's abundance is also cheaper than maple, etc.
So.. it's the bat companies choice as they can put it into production quicker, cheaper and still have strength in the finished product is what I gather from my search.
Regards...
SARGE..
And if you're really careful in your grain selection, you can have a Mickey Mantle signature on your workbench! How cool is that?!!
I'd go for it Erik.....bet it'll be gorgeous! Ash is great to work with too.
Whatever you do, don't use this species to carve a likeness of yourself: people will accuse you of making yourself of an ash!
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I recently finished an ash work bench base. It machines wonderfully, is less expensive than maple, birch or oak, little or no stress warping after dimensioning, but its as hard as mummy's nuts. Consider this if you are going cut out mortises by hand, which I didn't consider. Zero problems with splintering- this stands to reason considering ash is the wood of choice for making baseball bats!
My 2 cents say.. ASH is a wonderful wood.. USE it.. Hard. flexable and sort of stable. Just me
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