Replies

1. 
   ian | Mar 16, 2004 03:12pm | #1

   Buzz

   Have a look at Bob Key's bench site  http://www.terraclavis.com/bws/benches.htm

   His Good First Bench is pretty straight forward to build.  As to dog holes, it's really a matter of choice whether you cut square holes for square section dogs during the bench's construction, drill 3/4 in holes for round dogs in the top once you're finished, or do what my Dad does – use finish nails to tack a piece of scrap to the bench as a stop.  After 50 years the top of his bench is pretty scarred but still perfectly functional.

   hope this helps

   Ian

2. 
   BG | Mar 16, 2004 03:14pm | #2

   Buzz,

   I built mine early on without the availablilty of many power tools....no problem.  The toughest issue is not having a workbench to secure the stock for planing...so think about a temporary solution for that issue.

   Sarge had some good progress pictures on this web site and Bob's Bench has some wonderful info too.  Personally, I'd build the base first with sled type feet, M&T posts coming off the feet and sled type tops with slots for connetting to the top with lag bolts that can slide.  I used 6/4x6" cross supports.  Everything was cut by TS and hand with chisels and it went quickly.

   Sarge's set up with the end vise and double set of dog holes works great.    
1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 03:20pm | #3

   BG,

     Do you have any pictures you can post?  I still don't have a good set of chisels but think that I, at least, have to make that investment for cutting the mortises. Any plans that you used?

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   BG | Mar 16, 2004 04:43pm | #4

   Buzz,

   I made up my own plans in my head as I went along...have space constraints so it was only 6' long by 24" wide...which is adequate.  Once you decide how large the top you can back into the rest of the measurements....33-34 tall is a good height

   I took refuge in the idea from Bob's Bench that you'll build 5 workbenches in a life time....hell, that gives me 3 more to build before I'm considered odd....lol.

   I did not want to spend for mortice chisels so I picked up some old firmer chisels (whitherby's)for a buck or two at tag sales....they work very well.  The Sorby bench chisels will not hold up under the pounding...and you really don't want to use the japanese chisels for this task either...

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 05:00pm | #5

   Thanks,  the size you chose is exactly the size I was going to build. Did yours have a tail vise and a front vise?  Did you buy the vises from any particular vendor and can you recommend what type to buy? I really want both vises...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 16, 2004 06:02pm | #7

   Buzz

      Dig up the thread "Work-Benches, Beauty or Beast" from the archives and you'll see my whole group of pics on mine if that would be of help.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 06:07pm | #8

   Thanks Sarge,

     The ones I saw previously were post-completion of the bench, not in process.  I will do so and thanks a bunch...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

3. 
   BG | Mar 16, 2004 06:48pm | #9

   Buzz,

   Yes, mine has a front vise and tail vise.  In the front I put the big Jorge vise with the quick release feature.  On the end I got cheap and put on my old pony vise...it works well for holding stock while I plane....as I said, I got three more benches to go...lol

   I'd love to have a pattern makers vise...because now I'd like to do more with shaping wood..and I assume that would help hold the stock....maybe in the next bench...for the time being I'll use wood clamps and the front vise. 

4. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 07:12pm | #10

   BG,

     Can I add a tail vise after the fact, after the bench is complete.  I was thinking of building something like the Bob's Bench but adding a tail vise to it.  I just took a class on Bench Planing and the tail vise came in real handy.  Any recommendation for a good tail vise? Can you give me the model number of your front vise (the Jorgensen)..

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

5. 
   AlanTurner | Mar 16, 2004 07:52pm | #11

   A tail vise only requires a table saw to build.  The hardware is available from any of the mail order houses; I used the Woodcraft flavor, but Lee Valley has it as well.  About $100.  As to another's comment on picking up some tag sale witherby's, Wow.  I am a big fan of old chisels, and TH Witherby Warranted's are among the very best.  Those fellows really take and hold an edge.  You might also look for older Bucks Brothers, Butcher, Swan, Addis, and even old Stanleys.  My preference is for socket chiels, but tang chisels are OK too.

   A tail vise is extremely useful, and must be built into the bench as built; not added on later.  There is a print of one in the Landis book, which I followed and used.  It is not too complicated as it is just a  glued up bunch of quite square pieces of whatever wood you can find.  My bench is 12/4 maple, but SYP will work OK for the top.

   For the base, I recommend that the stretchers attach in a shallow M&T, with a captured nut arrangement as this can be tightened up over time, and you can really snug it up firmly.  And, you can disassemble to move if need be.

   Have fun; building my bench was quite a bit of fun.  I did add an Emmert No. 2 after the fact, and on the theory that if it is wood, I can probably figure out how to fix it, I even inset it, which involves the removal of rather massive quantites of wood.  Wish I could have designed around it from the start, but the Emmert was just a piece of good fortune (a pattern shop closing down and selling off its tools).

   AlanAlan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

6. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 16, 2004 08:48pm | #12

   >> A tail vise only requires a table saw to build.

   Call me a quibbler, but a tail vise doesn't require even a table saw to build. :o) There were tail vises long before there were table saws.

7. 
   AlanTurner | Mar 16, 2004 09:21pm | #13

   I will concede to your quibble.  That said, as a practical matter for one a bit new to the trade, a TS is probably the easiet way to accurately build a tail vise.Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

8. 
   Midnight | Mar 17, 2004 12:56am | #21

   A tail vise is extremely useful, and must be built into the bench as built; not added on later. 

   I ummmm... hate to say this, but I'm in the middle of retro fitting a tail and face vice right now...... Granted it's not easy... but if a half baked neep like me can figure it out.... it's possible..I'm building the Nelson vice from the Landis book...

    Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

9. 
   AlanTurner | Mar 17, 2004 03:21pm | #24

   Perhaps "must" should have been "should."  I don't dobt it can be done, but it seems to me it would be a lot of extra work, as I suppose you are finding.  Never say never, they say.

   AlanAlan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

10. 
    Midnight | Mar 17, 2004 09:53pm | #30

    I'm finding the main prob to solve is how to connect enough material to hold bench dogs to the rest of the work surface; the rest being a mere 1.5" thick with all the structural integrity of rice crispies..I knew going into this that there'd be a ton of work involved, most of it needing some pretty wild "out of the box" thinking. Good thing I'm paid from the neck down; if I'd known what would be involved, I very much doubt I would have started. Still.... thus far I've learned a ton of stuff...

    Frankenbenches.. God bless em....

    ;)Mike Wallace

    Stay safe....Have fun

11. 
    BG | Mar 16, 2004 09:36pm | #14

    buzz,

    The Jorgenson I used on the front is model #42416 at Rockler...not sure what the number is at Woodcraft or elsewhere.  I especially liked the wood handle.  You do have to make the decision which side of the vise the legs will go on.  Also, I incorporated the inside jaw into the bench top..so you have to plan for that too....you might want to add a 4-5" piece of stock to the front of the bench..

    The vise on the tail end is an inexpensive pony which lines up with the dog holes in the bench top...that can be added at any time, removed, replaced, etc.  I'd love to have a fancy one like Sarge's but given the location of my bench all the tail vise could ever do is hold stock to be planed and that does not require much strength...so it works fine.

    Lastly, I put on a 'dead-man' (think that is what it's called) that runs from under the bench top to the top of the sled foot....this is full of 3/4" holes and, with a piece of dowel stuck in the hole, helps support long pieces of stock in the front vise.. 

    Edited 3/16/2004 2:46 pm ET by BG

3. 
   Michmesquite | Mar 16, 2004 05:46pm | #6

   I'll email you a set of plans I drew for my workbench. It is basic but can be be built upon later if you want.

   __________________________________________________________

   Michael in San Jose

   Freedom from mental disturbance is the very most for which one can hope.

    Epicurus (341-270 BCE)

4. 
   ABenker | Mar 16, 2004 10:22pm | #15

   http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Bench/index.htm

   Buzzsaw,

   I don't know if you have seen this, but this is a step by step process for building a Frank Klauz bench. Very well detailed and can be modified to meet your needs. Never say it is out of your league!!

   Aaron

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 10:42pm | #16

   Thank You! This is awesome.  Ask and you shall receive...You are the man...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   ABenker | Mar 16, 2004 10:46pm | #17

   I dout that you will ever regreat attempting to build a bench like that. This website certainly breaks it down well. I've had the hard maple in my shop for over a year and hopefully i will find the time to build this real soon!!

   Good Luck

   Aaron

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 10:59pm | #18

   Thanks.  It may not be exactly like this bench but it will give me enough specific ideas and direction to tackle a workbench on my own. Thanks again...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

5. 
   mike4244 | Mar 16, 2004 11:18pm | #19

   Southern yellow pine is fine for a bench, make sure the boards are straight with no twist. If you have a jointer or planer , or you can handplane the faces flat.Most construction lumber (I'm assuming that's what you are using) is slightly cupped. Saw or plane off the rounded edges of the boards. Clamp them together and mark across the top for 5/16" allthread. I would put holes six inches from each end and about twenty inches center to center, in the middle of the width of the boards. The holes for rods should be 1/2" diameter. Perimeter boards holes are 1 3/8" by 3/4" deep. This is for socket wrench to tighten nuts and washers. A drill press would be best , but if you are careful you can bore the holes with an electric drill.Dry fit , and install rods. If everything fits well , remove rods and glue up about one third of the width. Rods can help as clamps. Do all three sections, then glue sections together. I used titebond regular glue and a paint pad to lay down glue.I worked on a large commercial millwork job a few years ago that required some type of bench. My boss had me make a bench like the one I described.

   He liked it so much I made one for his house. Then he began selling them, alltogether I made five for him. two metal vices were installed at opposite ends and the tops were left unfinished. I understood he got $500.00 for each one . I got coffee and doughnuts.

   mike

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 16, 2004 11:25pm | #20

   Mike,

     I was going to rip 2X8s into 2X4s for the bench top and glue on edge so that I wouldn't have the rounded edges. Thanks a lot for the info...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

6. 
   DavyBarr | Mar 17, 2004 06:20am | #22

   I built my bench after the Bob Key one and had very few tools at all to do it.  I had a brace and some bits, set of 4 Marples Blue chip chisels, home-made mallet, a Stanley #5 handplane, and a couple of handsaws.  Built the whole thing with pretty much just these tools.  The differences between my bench and the Bob's cheap one is that I used a leg vise and just drilled round dog holes.  Used all construction grade pine.  I love my bench and it works like a charm for me.  I say definitely use the Bob Key design.

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 17, 2004 06:02pm | #26

   Davy,

     Thanks for the encouragement.  I love the fact that you pretty much used only hand tools. That is awesome!  Hey, I want to leave work now and let some shavings fly. Happy St Patrick's Day!!!Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   BG | Mar 17, 2004 06:08pm | #27

   Buzz,

   I must appologize to you and all for using the wrong description of my 'tail vise'....I do not have a 'tail vise'..I have a vise on the end of my bench (cheap pony) which I use in conjunction with the dogs to hold down stock being planed on the flat.  It did not dawn on me until I re-read the posts that I was using the wrong terminology...and perhaps causing confusion.  Sorry...

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 17, 2004 06:15pm | #29

   BG,

     Thanks for the clarification and all of the help with your posts...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

7. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 17, 2004 07:46am | #23

   Buzz

      To answer your e-mail question in the order they were submitted:

   I prefer a twin screw end vise to a tail as I find I it more versatile and able to handle larger panels bewteen the screws. Just more versatile IMO. I also utilize a front vise.

   If you want to use a tool-tray in the future but omit it now, you could cut two dove-tails down the side of one of the outside pieces on the top. Latter, a slide on-slide off tray could be made and you have the versatility of removing it when it's in the way with the DT joint runners used down the lenght.

   I would use 3 x 3 if I used pine as you intend. Possibly 3 x 3 1/4" with 3" to the side to side and 3 1/4" on the lenght. A little added heft for through tenons.

   The width of my stretchers and whale-back are the same as the legs. In my case 3" x 3 1/2".

   My over-hang on the sides is 2" to give toe room and quick clamp ability. I just prefer toe room. It's a personal thing. Stand at some benches and see what you are comfortable with.

   My top is 23 3/4" x 67". With the twin screw open fully that gives me 79" of total surface support. I would like longer but this was custom made for my shop to fit the space allotted.

   #1 Long piece (stretcher) that spans the base is 50". That include the throught tenons that fully goes in the mortice in the legs.

   #2 Piece that extends width (rails) is 19 7/8". That is from tip to tip all the way through the bridle joints on both legs they connect to.

   #3 Legs are 30 7/8" high. That includes the tenons that go in and through the foot sled.

   #4 Piece that fit in feet. I assume the height of the foot sled itself. 3 3/4" tall. The base of legs are through tenons that extend completely through.

   Hope this helps...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 17, 2004 05:56pm | #25

   Thanks Sarge,

     I just like your base a lot.  It looks really sturdy and that is what I am looking for.  I may have other questions when I start this thing shortly.  Thanks for your patience with all the questions and when I finish this beast I will post pictures...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

2. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 17, 2004 06:11pm | #28

   Sarge,

     One more thing, the #1 piece that spans the length of the bench.  What are the exact dimensions of that post (I know the length)? The reason I ask is that I cannot tell whether the whole width of it sits in the rail or whether it is notched. Thanks again...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 18, 2004 05:13pm | #31

   Buzz

      It's the exact same dimentions as the stretchers. Make 3 strechers instead of two and you have the "whale-back" (top stretcher). Instead of M&T's on it, you simply use a half-lap or bridle to connect to the side to side rails.

      With the size of the M&T's, bridles, etc. joints on my bench, it is stable without even using glue or pins. Glue and pins are used, but as a good piece of timber-framing they're just a term life policy. Not a necessity, but a fall-back if the worst would happen.

      Just remember to keep the season and moisture content of your stock in mind. If it's humid and the wood is laden with moisture, work the joints tight. If it's low humidity and the stock is dryer, leave a little loose. The change in weather and humidity will take the cue and have room to respond so that a disaster is avoided.

   Regards...

   sarge..jt Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 18, 2004 05:37pm | #32

   Thanks Sarge.  I hope to start on the base this weekend.  I want a 'Sarge' base to my bench.  Nothing rickety here.  I'll try to post pictures eventually...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 18, 2004 05:46pm | #33

   Buzz

      E-mail or post if you hit a snag. I think you will find that just giving each step a little thought, common sense will get you to the finsh line with flying colors.

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 18, 2004 05:58pm | #34

   Sarge,

     I'm sorry but one more question.  The bottom stretcher is a through mortise into the leg. The bottom rail (90 degrees to the stretcher) must not be a through mortise into the leg as they would collide.  How did you handle this joint? I think I got the terminology correct...Thanks for clarifying what a whale-back was in your earlier post...

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 19, 2004 06:15am | #35

   Buzz

     Now you are taking your time and using observation. Very good catch. You are absolutely correct that the two tenons would collide unless the bottom side to side rail's tenon was very shallow.

     That bottom side to side rail is not attached at all. Now go back to the picture and look very carefully. The entire base shelf is hollow. You have the two 3" x 3 1/4" bottom stretchers that run from end leg to end leg. The inner portion of those stretchers have a 3/4" x 3/4" rabbet cut in them. 3" wide pieces of 3/4" thick Doug fir traverse across the width and are glued and pinned with dowels. On the ends there are the two bread-board ends that are attached with dowels to the outer ends. The ends of those are not attached at all to the legs.

     In essence the bottom is the two larger stretchers with a 3/4" shelf of DG run across. Gives diagonal strenght to the entire base unit, but adds no additional leg strenght. The large bridles at the top and the extremely large tenons at the base of the legs that attach to the sled are sufficient.

     The bottom shelf does not need to be solid. The end caps you referred too just give it the asthetic look of the entire piece being solid and as thick as the top. You can use the bottom shelf to store or as a base if you decide to add drawers. It could have been left open as an option also if you don't need the storage.

     You have lots of options. Explore them and exploit the ones that will most benefit you and your needs. Don't build your bench because so and so did this or that. Build it to meet your criteria. Only then will you be on your way to having a custom bench for your needs, not so and so's.  ha.. ha...

   Go get em, you're now on the right track...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   Buzzsaw | Mar 19, 2004 03:36pm | #36

   Thanks Sarge,

     I like your ideas and now I understand what you did.  It was confusing at first to me.  I'm sitting here in my office (I'm a computer guy) and I want to be home in my shop working on this sucker.  Thanks for all of your support...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

5. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 19, 2004 04:44pm | #37

   Buzz

      I would worry about paying the bills first. The shop will be there "ready when you are". Sounds like you've got your ducks pretty well lined up at this point so I'll go take a nap as we "old-timers" do. Wake me when you're done! ha.. ha...

   Good Luck...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)