FWW tested 8 workbenches in the TOOLS & SHOPS 2007. I am still shaking my head in wonderment over the junk that is being sold for near and over $1000.
A workbench is a central part of ones shop, usually a lifetime tool, and I would guess its not the first thing purchased. I speculate that most are bought after gaining some woodworking experience and probably long after other less expensive power and hand tool purchases.
It is amazing to me that any knowlegable “woodworker” would spend his hard earned cash on such poorly designed products with obvious defects. Some of the benches were so bad an amature would have seen the problems.
So, who is buying this stuff?
Replies
I don't know. Though I always take the philosophy that I have more money than time (and precious little of either), I can justify most tool purchases with that philosophy. I can't justify buying a workbench. I don't begrudge those who do, but for me there is too much to be learned, and too many design possibilities...plus the fact that I can pass it down. I have been struggling along with the bench I made out of plywood and 4 x 4's for about five years now. I am now in the process of stockpiling a bunch of 8/4 maple so I can finally build a real bench. I can't wait to get started, and can't wait to finish it, as it is kind of a rite of passage from what I can gather. Whenever I make something for the workshop, I always try to use it as practice for "real" woodworking. This will be another matter entirely, since it's not just a shop fixture, but THE SHOP FIXTURE. I have been unimpressed with most of the manufactured benches. the Lie-Nielsen is nice (go figure) but for $2,000, I would rather make one. Besides, a workbench is the only thing in the Lie-Nielsen catalog which I could say "I could make one as nice as that." I am going to make a version of the one featured in the 2003/2004 Tools and Shops (I think that is the date, and I am too lazy to get up and check) the one made by Lon Schliening (sic). I haven't decided whether to do a shoulder vise or a full width end.
Um, I'm slightly embarrassed to say that I'm probably their target audience. While there's no way I'd pay 1K for Grizzly's crap (love me some Grizzly - but they choked on this one), I can't justify 2K for the best. Even so, the article has intrigued me enough to beginning planning such a bench into my future setup. And, admittedly, the time & effort to replicate something already reviewed as amazing vs. just saving up the cash becomes a previously unsuspected consideration.
Well if you caught the thread I did a while back you may know I picked up a bench over Christmas for my father. I got one from Diefenbach (sp?) and it cost 1700 give or take delivered to my door. The LN that I looked at (this was a a wood show about a year ago) was going for a base of about 2000 and you needed to add in delivery. That would be a couple hundred more. Add in that LN has a waiting list and things get problematical with that option.
The Bench we have needed to have the screws on the vices cleaned off and lubed and after that it has been working well. The handles are a joke (on the vises) and I am looking at getting new ones. LN sells some for about 25 that may fit. (I need to check this) I have noted some minor rocking or racking or what ever if I am doing some extreme side to side work. But the bench I picked up has room for storage cabinets in the unit and I expect when we build those this issue will go away. Also this may be my not to flat conc slab and I may need to shim it a little better. I will look into this soon.
I did like the one comment about not wanting to buy one, then the bit about living with a temporary bench for 5 years. That is what I was afraid off. My dad built a temp. bench when I was about 7 or 8 we were still using it when the house burnt down last year that would make it about 30 years or so for the temp. That is why I decided just to buy one this time. If we did another temp and it made it only have as long as the last one did I would be in my 50s and my dad would be 90. So for some time is money, and everyone needs to decide where they want to spend time and where they want to spend money.
Doug Meyer
If the handles are wood, about 1" - 1-1/4" diameter, you can make new ones with a round over bit on a router. I bought a bench from a friend, who bought a room full at a school auction and for the price, there's no way I could pass on it for the price. Kids love to bang of and kick things, so I sanded it down, smoothed the drawer fronts and frame with my hand planes to clean it up, knocked the corners off so there wouldn't be any sharp ones and gave it a couple of coats of blond shellac. The top is the only thing that was less than great so I'm making a new one from maple. The vise was pretty crusty so I cleaned it completely, got rid of the rust, repainted it and made a new handle out of oak, but since the bench is maple, I may make one from that instead. This thing is a tank and can't rack. OTOH, it's hard to move at all, especially with the drawers full. If you're building storage for your Deifenbach, make the carcass fit the opening well and screw that to the frame. It won't go anywhere that way. Like I said, making your new handle is easy and will cost less than $25. The hole in the vise's screw is 1" dia and I needed a piece about 14" long, so I used a piece that was about 20", rounded over the corners in the center section, leaving the ends square to keep it in position on the router table and cut it to length after it was routed. For the end caps, I marked the center of a square piece, bored a hole with a Forstner bit to fit the handle and rounded it over. If I had the right radius router bit, I could have made it round but this one works fine. "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/18/2007 11:01 am by highfigh
Yeah I guess I could do that. I automatically was thinking in the lines of a lathe but I don't have one in this shop. We did in the old one, but it was a cheepy that we got even cheaper (I think it cost $50) but turning is not something I am big on so no lathe, thus I did not think about any other way to do this. And I have not been able to find any hardwood dowel over a 3/4". I guess I will look into your idea. I also like the idea that LN uses with the rubber ring on the end to soften the impact.
As for the Cases/Storage/Table bit, That is pretty much what I plan to do, build a box and insert it into the table and screw it in, this should end any racking. Now I think about it thow this may be the floor. The Garage (that will someday be a real shop) has a noticeable slope to drain it.
Doug Meyer
I don't have a lathe either but I keep thinking of ways to use one, lately. I did buy some gouges and a skew when I bought the bench. It has one full-width, 24" deep drawer about 10" high and four other drawers that are about 20" wide, same depth and width and I need to start finding auctions like that one. I measured the hole to see what the vise needed and did a test cut, which was a good fit. Remember to think of radius in terms of the actual size needed or you'll end up with a bizarre looking cross-section that resembles the rotor in a Mazda RX-7, like I did. OTOH, it was interesting and now I have another shape that can be used for a project. Use feather boards and keep the fingers away when you do this one. I haven't put an O ring on mine but it is a good idea. My floor is sloped, too, but I: A) don't plan on being in this house much longer and B) may move this bench to the back wall of the garage and if I do, I'll make a platform so it'll be level.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Well this is a brand new house and I hope to be in it for a LONG time. I have been thinking about putting in a floor in the place. If I do I will use some 2X and just put them over the concrete. I will adjust as needed to get rid of the slop. This would allow me to insulate the floor and put some wireing in the floor. Plus it is nicer to walk on wood then conc. So that is what I hope to do. Still that will not be until spring at least.
As for the routing of the dowel I was thinking of putting the bit into the table and using a fence to avoide the issue of odd shapes.
Doug Meyer
Yeah, I used the fence and it takes away the chances of the blank wobbling or deviating from the intended path. A little sanding and a few coats of shellac and it was done. Like I said, I left about 3" of the square on the piece at each end and that lets it just lay on the table with no rotation. My next place, provided that the yard is big enough will either be in a warmer place or I'll add on for the shop, use vapor barrier on the floor and insulate it really well. A wood burner would be good, too. I have too many scraps.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Beall Tool has American hardwood dowels to 1", maple to 1 1/2". The prices seem reasonable though highfigh's tip sounds good.
http://www.bealltool.com/products/threading/dowels.php
Considering the fact that what I used was in my scrap barrel and took a good minute to make the dowel and it was a weekend, I think I did OK.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I'd be the last person to criticize anyone for buying what they felt they needed for their shop. However....I've been working on my woodworking work bench for about a year now. Before I cut one chip, or bought one board foot of material, I acquired and read The Workbench Book by Scott Landis. I also researched as many bench designs on the web I could find and read much on this site. I've also slowly been acquiring my shop equipment over that year as well. I have the money, that's not the issue, I just don't like to spend it unwisely. I've gotten spectacular deals on all my equipment, found some excellent local raw materials suppliers. My personal belief is that building my workbench gives me an opportunity to learn proper technique while gaining some valuable experience building what should be one of my best tools. The shop is fully outfitted now. I've learned a LOT while working on the bench. It's finally about ready for final assembly. I have every expectation that when I'm done, I'll have the best bench I could have (for ME), purchased or hand made. I read the FWW article with much interest, and was shocked (and gratified) at what a production bench sells for. I've got about $300 + invested in materials and hardware, plus many hours of enjoyment. I haven't shortchanged ANYTHING, nothing but quality, I'd put my bench up against any of the comperable designed production models. Seems like the right investment to me, for me anyway and I'm eagerly looking forward to my first furniture projects using the bench. I can say this with certainty. If nothing else, by now, I sure as heck know how to prep material!!! I'll post pics soon of the bench, you all can be the judge...Jeff
Another thing about benches- they can be works in progress as the needs and skills change over time. There's nothing wrong with this, either. If a vise needs to move, it's a good opportunity to learn to insert a piece in a way that makes it look like it's supposed to be there. That translates to furniture making very well. What works well now may not in the future and there's no reason to set the bench's design in stone..
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
What kind of wood did you use, and where did you find affordable lumber? I'm struggling with this now. I have a jointer and planer, so rough cut is OK.
I also made my own bench, however, the point I tried to make was that :
1) Manufactures continue to turn out poorly designed and constructed benches;
2) Buyers, certainly some of them knowledgeable, pay good money for them.
Machinery, to me, is harder to judge than a workbench.
Maybe I am clueless, or time has passed me by!
I wasn't challanging the point you were making. Fact is I couldn't agree more, nothing seems to be made well these days. Not consistantly anyway. In another life I was a machinist, and programmed CNC machines for many years making marine and aerospace parts. Given todays technology (computers, alloys, composites, CAD/CAM design tools, etc.) manufactured products should be near perfect time in and time out. But they're far from it. You can buy a machine and find it's the best thing since canned beer. Recommend it to your buddy, he buys the same machine six months later with your recommendation, and the quality control is lousy in the plant or production has moved offshore and he/she gets a horrible machine ruining your credibility. Seems you can't count on anything made today except maybe electronics.I also don't find fault with anyone who purchases their bench instead of making it. The fact that there's a waiting list and it takes months to get some of these benches (according to an earlier post) suggests that PLENTY of people are lining up to buy them. Seems there's no shortage of folks with pockets full of money these days. More power to them. I'm hoping to sell some of my work to these fine folks as my retirement gig.As for the material of MY workbench, it's almost all maple, a little white oak and red oak in places. I pay $2.00 a board foot for the maple, a little more for the oak at a local sawyer.I found finding a raw material supplier THE MOST DIFFICULT aspect of woodworking when I got serious about the work. Finding high priced material was easy, it's the reasonably priced material I found so difficult to find. What finally helped me greatly, was the WoodFinder web site.http://www.woodfinder.com/This site is how I finally found a reasonable supplier of hardwood. It's also how I found a local supplier for Baltic Birch sheet stock as well, a material I also found hard to find at a reasonable price.Hope this answers the questions and addresses the comments to my post.Thanks everyone...Jeff
You buy benches? You need to test them? Both of those concepts seem foreign to me. (These are rhetorical questions - I'm not saying "you" as in you personally).
I've built three workbenches so far, and,... hmmm,....they all test good.
Yes I believe that people will put out junk and overpriced stuff as long as there are saps that will pay for it. I don't know much about economics, but I do know that!
Someday I'm going to build one of those 12 foot long Shaker workbenches as pictured on p. 32 of The Workbench Book - one that you need a forklift and 2 1/2 ton flatbed truck to move from pt A to pt. B.
Ok, as a guy that bought a bench I have a question for you. If building is so much better then uh why are you on your third? You have a shop big enough that you need three?
Doug Meyer
I have one bench in my machine shop, one outdoor bench, and one bench upstairs in my study where I sometimes do some hand tool work. Any more questions I can answer for you or am I allowed to simply express my own opinion and go my own way? I may well build bench #4 at some time in the future - I like building them them that much. I do have a shop that's big enough for multiple workbenches, and of course, one of the neat things about being a hobbiest is that you can do pretty much whatever you want. Take care, Ed
I suspect for many hobbyists building a workbench is considered part of the enjoyment even if saving money isn't a major concern. For the hobbyist depending on whether time or money are in shorter supply the relevent ratios are (amount of enjoyment) / (money spent) and (amount of enjoyment) / (time spent).
For someone seriously trying to make money out of woodworking then a buy/build decision will probably be made on the basis of how much money can they net by working on an income producing project in the time required to build a workbench, and comparing that to the amount saved by buying a bench. (I'm not including in this group those trying to keep their hobby from costing too much or even make some spending money by selling some of their pieces.)
For both groups there are other considerations. Is there sufficient time to build a needed bench? If a cradle has to be built before a grandchild is born or a cabinet built to meet a deadline than buying one may be the only option. Also how close to desires, needs and requirements does a purchased bench come? If one isn't available then the options tend towards building a workbench or modifying a purchased one. And skills, and available tools and facilities can also be a factor.
I'm a hobbyist who is currently planning a bench to be built in the next several months. Primary reasons for building rather than buying are that it should be an enjoyable project, and given me an opportunity to try some larger joinery. Also I enjoy the design side, perhaps more than the actual construction. I will be buying a maple "butcher block" slap for the top given the cost/time ratio. I'll put my time into the base joinery instead of fabricating the top.
As far as I can remember, every single maker I know--myself included--have built their own benches. Now, these benches for the most part are not pretty benches. A few are, but were certainly not the first benches they built, either.
The people I know making money don't worry much about the aesthetics of the bench, just that it meets their needs. Think of Maloof's bench. Most hobbyists I know wouldn't want the thing in their shop.
Hobbyists have more time and most often more money.
My take on building verses buying is that it is good training for the projects to come. That applies to shop fixtures as well. Approach each task when fitting the shop with cabinets that while they may not have the "good" wood, they be built to similar standards for their design as the future furniture.
That said, I could also care less if one buys a bench. I may not understand it, nor do I understand the beauty of some I have seen as applies to my background, but then again, it isn't my bench nor my wallet.
Take care, Mike
Mike,
".....every single maker I know--myself included--have built their own benches. Now, these benches for the most part are not pretty benches. A few are, but were certainly not the first benches they built, either".
Well I think my first self-made bench is quite pretty (but I may be sporting the rose-tinted glasses of a new daddy). :-)
It's a difficult comparison to make, between a made and a bought bench of roughly the same quality.
The first point is that one's self-made bench is likely to exceed the quality of any that can be bought (excepting bespoke ones). After all, you make it for you, not "the market". In terms of weight, beef, personal utility and most other factors I can think of, mine is better than anything I have seen in a catalogue. Certainly better than any of those tested in FWW.
Now, I cheated a bit by using free wood from my various wood fairies; however, this beast-of-bench cost me $300 in maple for the top, $500 for two vises and maybe another $150 for various dogs, hold-downs and the like. The timber for the frame and the cupboards is all scavenged.
Although the bench is a bit of variegated thang (containing maple, iroko and various African mahoganies) it weighs a ton, cannot be moved unless disassembled and is solid as a rock when worked on. Also, all the joints in the cuboards and drawers were hand cut on this very bench - a good christening for it and for me, in the handtool skills.
So, after initial doubts and coming very close to buying one, I find myself extremely satisfied with the bench I've made; and probably $1000 or more better-off. Building it (or rather, its storage space) also taught me quite a lot of woodworking skills.
I am tempted to post a pic or two.
Lataxe
>I suspect for many hobbyists building a workbench is considered part of the enjoyment,.... <
Yes. I can not scan through either of Taunton's major workbench books without wanting to start building another bench,.....The next one will be the bench to end all benches. The 12 footer with built-in cabinets and its own zip code. The Godzilla of all benches. I need to buy some property out in the country, say 10 to 20 acres, to put around it. Then build a free-standing 30 x 50, two-story shop building with radiant in-floor heating, high speed internet, dancing girls, wet bar, jacuzzi, and 24-hour smoke-pit barbecue delivery, to wrap around it. Then,...then,...as the crown jewel of my workshop,....I will build my 12-foot, virtually immovable, small aircraft carrier of a workbench,......
Good luck with your bench, I guarantee that you will enjoy using it.
Why would anyone find it an odd concept to test a bench? A workbench IS A TOOL, regardless of whether you build your own or buy your bench. It has form, fit and function. If we were talking about a tablesaw or a laser level, I doubt anyone would find testing to be an odd concept?!Certainly, as a tool, benches can be tested, and without a doubt, production benches SHOULD BE tested. I do not have a large shop so my floor space is highly valued, yet I have three benches in my shop, counting the woodworking bench currently under construction. Different sizes and configurations, for different uses. I'm not going to do mechanical work on my woodworking bench, nor am I going to build a cabinet on my oil and grease stained mechanic bench. Make no mistake, they are all some of the most needed, most important TOOLS I have in my shop, second only to the building holding them. I couldn't work without them, and without them, I don't have an effective shop I can accomplish any work in.Jeff
Doug, You are right about the time/money thing. Like I said in my other post, I can justify just about any tool purchase (to myself at least). I just know I can't build a new tablesaw or lathe, and I know if I bought a workbench, I'd walk by it every time and say, "you could have been my lathe." Plus, I'm really up for the challenge of building the bench, but like you, I'd like it right now. I can't wait to hear what my wife says when she sees the bench I build...she already thinks I'm down there building some sort of weird shrine as it is. Well, better that than see the bench, and then the receipt. "But honey, I know it's the most expensive piece of furniture in the house...but I really needed it." Jeff, Well said. Build it or buy it...just build with it.
My Sjoberg elite just arrived. My old bench was something I cobbeled together out of 4 x 6 lumber. It fell apart just taking it out of the garage.
Plus, the Sjoberg bench is just a terrific piece of equipment. I don't think I would have had the fore site to design this kind of piece. I'd probably have tried to get really fancy with the design and then obsess over the fact that this is supposed to be an heirloom piece and...two years later...when it's done I'd think it was too nice to work on.
I also did the math and there's no way I could have made this project as cost effectively as Sjoberg. And as I'm building a business around woodworking I could justify the expense. The time I'm spending not building my own bench is time I'm building my business.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled