Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 06, 2003 10:45pm | #1

   Ken's Shop

      Any kind of cushioning effect will help. I'm curious as to how this stuff will work.

   Best of Luck...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   chrisindiana | Dec 07, 2003 03:22am | #2

   Ken,

   I grew up on a dairy farm & we used large rubber mats for the cow stalls & farm shop.  I was at a Tractor Supply Store recently & they still have the mats. The mats come in sizes 3/4" X 48" X 60" & 3/4" X 48" x 84". The mats are cut square on all edges so they can be butted together, so the entire floor could be covered. They sell for less than $3.00 a square foot.  Link http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=6&paID=1045&sonID=182&productID=2183 

   Chris    

1. 
   kensshop | Dec 07, 2003 03:40am | #3

   Mats for this purpose can be purchased at most builder suppliers as well as places like Grainger.  I want something permanant that can be easily cleaned and looks good, too.  (part of the appeal of this material is it will give my woodshop the appearance of having a hardwood floor) 

   I guess I phrased my statement as an inquirey when I meant for it to be something I plan to do and would like for others to consider for their own floor.  Sorry...    I will, however, take all your suggestions into consideration.  That, of course, is why we have this forum. 

   Oh, and by the way, today, Sat., Dec. 6, 2003, I purchased a Mini-Max S45 bandsaw.  Beautiful machine.  I won't be setting it up for use until my home shop location is ready mid Feb., '04.   I'll be selling my 30 year old Delta 14".  It's a very good saw.   When it's time to find 'im a new home I'll let everyone know.

1. 
   jwaterbury | Dec 07, 2003 05:14am | #4

   Making your floor too soft can also be a problem on your hips, knee and

   ankles. Its like a mattress. Too hard is a problem. Too soft is a problem. You have to be the judge. Get a small sample and put it in place where you can stand on it for an afternoon. Like in front of your work bench

3. 
   Norse | Dec 07, 2003 07:12pm | #5

   I would think residential grade (type I) vinyl would tear easily in a shop. The wear layer is only .020 whereas the wear-layer for commercial sheet vinyl (type II) is .085; big difference! I think that even a floating laminate floor over a foam pad would last much longer than vinyl. I just painted my plywood with floor enamel and its a great surface with no worries about damage (who cares!).

   Norse

1. 
   kensshop | Dec 07, 2003 07:55pm | #6

   The thicker vinyl is something to consider.  I'll see if it's available with the thin foam backing like the residential I'm considering. 

1. 
   Norse | Dec 08, 2003 12:14am | #7

   I've never seen the thicker vinyl over a pad, its a glue down product that is used in hospitals, etc. The seams are welded. If you like vinyl, VCT is the most inexpensive but again, is a glue down and can't go over a pad. I guess what I didn't say before is that I really don't think you need a cushioned floor. I have a bad back (two major and a dozen minor surgeries) along with knee surgery and I find the flex of a wood floor sufficient (and spend all day in the shop).

   The padded vinyl if made for concrete slab floors and if you're putting in wood, you may only need to think about a finish to keep the shop clean, i.e. paint, VCT, hardwood, linoleum, etc.

   Don't forget to run electrical outlets while you're at it. If you have the head room, raising the floor on joists and getting the duct collection under ground makes for a clean setup.

   Good luck,

   Norse

1. 
   kensshop | Dec 08, 2003 12:44am | #8

   I have a touchy L5 in my lower back.  The only thing that gives me trouble is standing in one position for more than a couple of minutes.  I'm trying to be proactive in dealing with back and joint trouble.  I do plan to spend a LOT of time in my shop starting this spring. 

   Our house is only 3 years old and has a nice high basement ceiling, but, I'm not going to have the head room we would all desire.  That's why I'm keeping the floor down to a total of 1 1/2".   I'll probably will run some of the power underneath but the dust collection will definitely run overhead.  I've got it mapped out and it'll be pretty straight forward.

   I've seen a few messages about dust collection.  Mine is a real put-together outfit.  I traded a friend some professional services for a used 1,200 cfm Jet.  Next, I bought a cyclone from a dealer in Louisville, KY.  I unbolted the motor/blower from the Jet assembly, cobbled it onto the cyclone, ran hoses, etc, etc.  It works real good. 

2. 
   razorsharp | Jan 14, 2004 05:03am | #28

   Would you mind telling me exactly what kind of paint you used? I just built a similar plywood floor and I wanted to use one of those epoxy garage paints, but I was told that the paint would crack because it dries brittle and the floor will expand and contract. Thanks a lot.

1. 
   MajorWool | Jan 14, 2004 11:01am | #29

   Try a porch and stair tread paint. They work well on both concrete and wood, and you can even mix in some sand for added friction to prevent slips.

2. 
   Norse | Jan 14, 2004 02:56pm | #30

   I used Sherwin Williams High Performance Floor Enamel. I'm guessing that an epoxy is harder than enamel but you should talk to the folks at the paint store (not the home center with a paint dept) about your application. I used the "gray" and would call its visual appearance "semi-gloss" and reflects light (a good quality over a "flat" paint). However, it is not slippery (look at the different friction co-efficient when you compare the epoxy with enamel). If its listed as "floor" or "deck", I'll guess its non-slip. I used oil based paint and it stinks to high heaven for a few days so you might want to wait if you live in cold country. I had used my plywood (CDX) for the concrete forms and had sprayed them with Thompson water seal before pouring concrete. Before I painted, I plugged the holes with dowels and lightly sanded (rent a big vibrator, not a drum sander) and it turned out fine.

   Good luck,

   Norse

1. 
   chillywilly | Jan 14, 2004 06:43pm | #31

   would liek to know more about the floor you put in.  Is it over concrete?  did you lay down insulation, sleeper studs, etc?

1. 
   Norse | Jan 14, 2004 09:32pm | #32

   Because I live in cold country, I needed frost protection (footings down 4'). So I poured 4' high 10" thick, foundation walls (over footings) and poured a concrete slab at the bottom of that (over gravel and moisture barrier). I ran 2" insulation around the outside of the walls before I backfilled. At the top of the foundation wall, I recessed a 5" wide x 9 1/2" high notch for I-joists. I used solid wood (2 1/2" wide) with osb flanges. http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00039.asp

   My building is 26' wide and the joists are only good for 13' on 16" centers so I built a center wall with lots of openings (and headers) to carry the load.

   Then I glued and screwed the 3/4" plywood over that. I also used strips of plywood at unsupported joints in the floor plywood to form a diaphragm.

   Under some of the heavier equipment, I have installed short girders with 4 x 4 posts, all of which is bolted to the concrete floor to reduce vibration.

   I use the crawl space to run the electrical and dust collection to tools. Its a little tight for headroom but I keep a skate board down there to scoot around on.

   I hope this helps. Where are you in the process?

   Norse

2. 
   chillywilly | Jan 14, 2004 10:53pm | #33

   WOW!  Thanks for the detailed information.  I currently have my shop set up in the garage.  Concrete floor, insulated, heated.  After 3-4 hours, the concrete floor takes its toll on the back and legs.  Would like to lay a wood floor over the slab but want to do it right.

3. 
   kensshop | Jan 15, 2004 06:11am | #34

   ron, just thought I'd jump back into this one.  I've looked at a lot of way to soften the floor.  I've decided to use a snap together type of anti-fatigue mat.  No, nothing from any of the builder supply big boxes or Sam's.  I found a type that is 1/4" thick and has tapered edges available if needed.  When I find the web page I'll post it.  Ken

4. 
   kensshop | Jan 15, 2004 11:11pm | #36

   ron, check this web site.

   http://www.greatmats.com/

5. 
   watkinsjd | Jan 16, 2004 10:48pm | #39

   Ron

   Check http://www.deltams.com - I have an 18 by 20 foot garage and I think I am going to use their product with 3/4 t&g plywood.  Holds a lot of weight per sq/ft, looks easy to install and according to my calculation would be cheaper than going the sleeper route.  Maybe not as much insullation.

   We just ended fifty something hours of sub zero temps so I am especially concerned about cold feet today ;=})

   John

2. 
   razorsharp | Jan 15, 2004 03:01pm | #35

   Thanks Norse. Went to the Sherwin Williams web site (industrial section, not consumer) and downloaded a bunch of info about many different floor coatings. I definitely agree that I need to talk to the people at the Sherwin Williams store- they have a lot of different products. But I have time- it's about 22 below in my shop and most of the paints say to apply when it is 55 degrees or more... I haven't gotten a heater yet.

3. 
   chatobob | Jan 16, 2004 05:34am | #37

   If you are putting down a plywood floor you might consider a deck stain instead of paint.  The stains come in a wide variety of colors, are made for foot traffic, go on without hassle, and stay there.  I used 3/4 T&G, good on one side ply over a subfloor and applied one coat of deck stain.   Only one problem:  the sawdust still lands on the floor, messing up my beautiful work.    

1. 
   razorsharp | Jan 16, 2004 02:45pm | #38

   I am considering stain as well. In addition to the advantages you mentioned, I think that it wouldn't be slippery if my shoes are wet. Also, if I drop something on it or drag something along the floor, it wouldn't chip since the stain gets absorbed into the wood. Also, it would be probably be less expensive than industrial type paint coatings. Only drawback for me is that I used CDX plywood and was planning on using a floor levelling compound to smooth out the knots and defects in the surface.

4. 
   PlaneWood | Dec 08, 2003 07:08pm | #9

   What's wrong with just buying a pair of thick sole orthopedic shoes??  Rockport has several orthopedic shoes with soft cushioney soles.  That way you take the 'pad' where ever you go!  Retail store prices are $100+ for these Rockport.  Sometimes they can be found at discount stores for a cheaper price.  Some retail stores have to special order them.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

1. 
   DougF | Dec 08, 2003 08:52pm | #10

   All,

   I too have lower back problems and my orthopedist  and podiatrist recommended SAS (San Antonio Shoes) and the difference has been marked.  They sell for about $110 and worth every penny. 

   I have found that the 3X3 mats ($20) that Home Depot sells more than adequate.  They also "snap" together. 

   Doug

1. 
   foghorn | Dec 09, 2003 02:00am | #17

   re SAS shoes: I have Serious back problems (2 operations) and got these shoes thru a local hospital Pain Management Center. They made a noticeable difference and I recommend them highly.

   They a'int pretty but they work. Especially with a properly selected Orthotic.

   Best of luck.

2. 
   BG | Dec 08, 2003 09:03pm | #11

   Mike,

   The concrete floors in this climate hold the cold, and while thick soled shoes help, you can actually feel the cold up in your shins.  I wear Rockports and have a piece of outdoor carpeting with rubber back..it's not enough...after about an hour you can feel the coldness in your shins....and even if you leave the area, you can feel the cold for several hours.

   I've been waiting for the interlocking rubber mats to go on sale.  I may breakdown and either pay retail or put down rigid insulation (1") with sleepers and 1/2" ply....my wife likes the look of the ply..and it smells like a shop too...

1. 
   EdHarrow | Dec 08, 2003 10:52pm | #12

   My "back" shop (mostly been storage, until now) has 3/4" foam between 3/4" sleepers.  Concrete slab below, 3/4" TG ply on top.  Quite comfortable, in comparison to current shop, just  concrete with misc padding here and there.

2. 
   ASK | Dec 08, 2003 11:25pm | #13

   BG,

   I don't know where you live but I'm in Mass. and it gets pretty cold in the winter here. I was in a Pep Boys auto supply store a few months ago and they were selling the 4 SF interlocking mats. 16 or 20 SF for about $7 or $8 . I bought all they had. I was in last week and bought 4 more. I find it soft but not spongy, easy to clean with the vacuum, and best of all cheap

   ASK

1. 
   BG | Dec 09, 2003 12:28am | #15

   Ask,

   Me to...near 93 and 128.  I'll try the Pep Boys, thanks

1. 
   kensshop | Dec 09, 2003 01:34am | #16

   All of your suggestions and comments are appreciated.  The article was a great example of how individual ideas can be passed along to the benefit of others.       Ken Duff, Georgetown, KY

2. 
   ASK | Dec 09, 2003 02:18am | #18

   BG,

   I weekend in the "wilds" (as my children call it) of Western Mass in the Berkshires.

   Up from NYC most weekends

   ASK

3. 
   PlaneWood | Dec 08, 2003 11:33pm | #14

   BG -

   Hmmm, well, today I'm wearing shorts and I just took my shirt off cause I was starting to sweat.  I wasn't thinking of 'cold' floors, only hard floors.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

5. 
   Mackwood | Dec 09, 2003 07:28pm | #19

   Ken,

   I've been agonizing over this same question over the past year and finally made the leap.  I put 4 mil plastic over the concrete, 3/8" carpet pad over that and 7/16 OSB over that.  Laid the OSB down with carpet tape along all the edges and held the sheets down with "three to a sheet" powder actuated fasteners.  Put on three coats of Sherwin Williams "Tread-Plex" paint.  I really like the way it feels under-foot.  Small wheels on machines won't dig in.  Surface should be pretty durable and cost was low.  Could have been a lot lower if I had bought the OSB early last spring @ $8.00 a sheet.  Will wait until price drops back down before I do the other half of the shop!

   Enjoy!

   MAck

1. 
   SDBaker | Dec 09, 2003 09:57pm | #20

   I was looking to put something on the floor of my garage workshop and came across this link.  Very expensive, but easy and good looking result.

   http://www.racedeck.com

   Check it out.

1. 
   Mackwood | Dec 10, 2003 12:37am | #21

   Bakerwood,

   Looks very nice--too pretty for me!  My "system" cost me about  67 cents a square foot even with the high price on OSB.  I'm real pleased with my functional alternative.

   Thanks for the link!

   Mack

2. 
   kensshop | Dec 10, 2003 03:30am | #24

   I e-mailed those folks for info.  This could be a very good alternative to the Armstrong product.   Thanks

6. 
   Novy | Dec 10, 2003 12:46am | #22

   Go for the cork! it is very durable

   On a hill by the harbour
1. 
   kensshop | Dec 10, 2003 03:34am | #25

   I love the feel of cork and I know it's very durable.  But at the best price I've found it would cost me around $5,500.00 to do the entire shop.  That can buy a lot of select hardwood and and tools.   

   If you know of a source for cork that's considerably less than $4.50 sq. ft., PLEASE let me know.

7. 
   b1gcountry | Dec 10, 2003 02:45am | #23

   If that's the same stuff that is often sold as imitation wood flooring, then beware that it is pretty slippery. Especially when wet, which can be dangerous.

   Tom

1. 
   kensshop | Dec 10, 2003 03:37am | #26

   I hadn't thought of that.  And, as I recall, I did mix that gritty product in the paint I used on my current concrete workshop floor.  I agree with you but see little reason to get the floor wet to begin with.  Still, I'll keep this in mind.  Thanks

1. 
   b1gcountry | Dec 10, 2003 05:48pm | #27

   My Parents have it in their kitchen, so it gets wet there. I work with waterstones, so spills are inevitable in my shop...

   Tom