I’m setting up a basement workshop and one non-woodworking issue is picking speakers that will function in that environment. I’ld appreciate any input. Thanks.
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Replies
I had and old radio and turntable from younger days and it held up great but being a tool person with cordless toolsI bought the Bosch, with cd,radio and charger because I have Bosch tools just love it.
had and old turntable from younger days AND a old HEATH kit I made ampliflier.. Old vacuume tube kit.. and 16 inch speakers,, As I remember they had like 20 or more pound magnets,,.. I never bothered with the mid range or tweters..The cops came ones because the neighbors called and thought my house was under a eaert quake! I was just playing the old CD of CrossRoads
and a playing 'Feelin' Bad Blues' by RY COODER...DAmn I loved his music.. SOrt of like ZZ-TOPS and BO-Diddley combined!
I don't think you need anything special. A little dust isn't going to hurt them. I'd be more concerned about the CD player.
-Steve
I stumbled across something made for the kitchen that works well for me....an under-shelf mounting am/fm/cd/mp3 player made by GE (though I'm sure others make similar models).
I figured being under a shelf might help the dust problem some, it would be out of the way, wouldn't take up any needed space, and if the cd player went kaput I'd still have am/fm/mp3 capability. The speakers on these things are on the bottom front corners and made to project the sound down and out. The sound on mine is more than loud enough.
Here's a link. If you go this route, shop around. I got mine for less than $100.
http://www.audiobuys.net/General%20Electric/2375.htm
Oh...it's also got a kitchen timer and indoor/outdoor thermometer.....pretty handy to have in a woodshop.
charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
Edited 11/8/2007 2:40 am by charlie4444
Edited 11/8/2007 2:42 am by charlie4444
CHAS, thanks for the that vendor ref. for $25 more I picked up a mono "Tivoli" radio designed by Henry Kloss( aka KLH-ADVENT-CAMBRIDGE SOUND WORKS) that sounds GREAT!
I had a good boom box that I noticed that after many months of working on loading in and setting up tools from the old house, I was not fussing with the tape deck or cd's at all. I also found myself turning it wayyy down when doing a serious head job of precision layout, it WAS a distraction. This little* radio will go on a shelf behind the 2nd top step of the open staircase up to the house(the stair case vault swells the sound nicely). It has a 3" full range speaker WITH a reflex port and draws 20 watts. Thanks again for the lead to some sweet sound, Paddy
* 8.375"x4.5"x5.25" walnut case
Edited 11/28/2007 4:21 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
Cool! Glad to help. Took a look at your radio....very cool retro styling. Good quality too!
Happy listening Paddy. charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
I picked up one of those Bosch jobsite radios about a year ago and I love it. It gets great reception -- even pulls in the weak public radio stations better than any other radio in the house -- and has a nice CD player to boot. The CD player will play MP3 CDs, so I can use my PC to record custom CDs with 3 or 4 hours of my favorite music. (I'm one of those folks who only likes a few tunes on most CDs, so rolling my own is a big plus.) It also has an input jack for an MP3 player or Ipod and a keyfob remote control. Good sound. Rugged. I use it in the shop and at jobsites. I like it so much, I'll be switching to Bosch cordless tools when any of my other various brands die so I can take advantage of the battery charger included in the radio.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
My workshop is heated or cooled when needed, but mostly stays at the temps of whatever is outside. I found that the paper and rubber suspension materials in large speakers really takes a beating in those variations. If you go for a super sound system with a powered subwoofer, you may be disappointed... While the super bass is great for big screen TV's or that old-tyme Juke Box sound, anything that hangs or is loose in cabinets or drawers will surely begin to buzz or rattle with every beat !
Look for some speakers with a plastic/mylar material for the cones or use some cheap ones you can toss after 3 or 4 years. Since many machine and instruction videos are available, go for one of those cheap DVD players that Sears sells for $30 or less, and get the extended warrantee for an extra $5. If your fine sanding dust affects it, return it for a new one.....
The thing you need to consider is dust effects on the Tape/CD/DVD player, if you get a boombox or one of those small shelf systems. Try to place the system away from areas of chips and dust and run your speaker wires so you can get the music channels split apart for stereo effect but near where you work.
Enclose the TV/amp/player unit inside a dust-tight cabinet when not used. With seasonal closeouts almost over, you can make a plastic cover fashioned from patio furniture or a propane grill covers....just remember to remove it when you've got it on so the heat can get out.
I've found that about the only times I use my radio/music system is when I'm sanding or doing those things that clean or organize the shop. It distracts me if I'm using power tools or doing layout measurements...
Bill
Edited 11/8/2007 9:32 am ET by BilljustBill
Edited 11/8/2007 9:34 am ET by BilljustBill
Cambridge Sounsworks make some nice speakers that are installed in walls or ceilings. I think they make some for outdoor use.
Are you not planning on having top-notch dust collection in your basement shop? Do you have air handlers or other HVAC equipment in the basement?
Edited 11/8/2007 11:31 am ET by GregDaCosta
Bit pricy but how about some wireless earphones. Or something on that order. May protect the ears from sound and give you some ZZ-TOPS to listen to!
Hello,
Wireless headphones are a great idea. My shop is 20 feet from the house (and the computer room), and I wear those headphones while connected to a variety of Internet radio stations playing "world music" -- mostly Radio-Canada and Radio-France Internationale (music 24 hours a day, no news, no interruption, no annoying DJ blathering about this or that...). There are litterally thousands of stations on the Net... just pick what you like.
Plus there is absolutely no wire dangling anywhere, to get caught in equipment... just a thingie that you plop on your head.
However, don't expect that you'll be able to hear music when some machines are running -- TS, drill press and other drills are OK, barely, but not the DC, the jointer or the planer.
When I get sick and tired of music, and I know I'll be using hand tools, I connect the unit to an old CD player (still inside the house), and listen to one of my CDs or to "books on tape" borrowed from the library.
The bad thing about this setup is of course that I have to go back in the house to change radio stations... Sooner or later, I'll get a laptop in the shop... but not now, cause I have my eye on a new cabinet saw...
Richard L.
I listen to a lot of Internet Radio but havent thought of the wireless headphones. I wish they would make some wireless sound protection type headphones...that would be perfect!...sounds like a contradiction in terms<g>.
I have an old pc in the workshop that is connected via wireless to my home network. I can use media player to access all of my ripped cds and playlist as well over the network. I found an old ati all-in-wonder tv/graphics card that gives me tv out there as well...if i want it<g>
Also, having an internet conected pc in the shop gives me access to a whole bunch of resources, google conversions, etc.
Skip
http://www.ShopFileR.com
"I wish they would make some wireless sound protection type headphones."
1) Get some hearing-protection headphones that have a built-in FM radio; e.g., http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17248&filter=radio.
2) Get an FM repeater for your iPod, CD player or other audio source; e.g., http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7521149&st=iPod+FM&type=product&id=1127210996478. (This takes the audio signal and sends out a low-power FM radio signal that you can receive on any FM radio.)
3) Relax and enjoy.
-Steve
Steve,
Gotcha...Thanks!
Now THAT is a great idea. I can just run the PC audio output to the FM transmitter and then listen to anything I want...
I know that HF makes a pair of those headphones. Does anyone know if they are any good or not?
Skip
http://www.ShopFileR.com
Radio Shack sells wireless headphones, 59.95 ,good for at least 200 feet and have good sound, volume control exc.
Not quite the answer you were looking for, I have a Bose Wave radio + CD that the LOML bought me for my birthday. I have a fairly large basement workshop and I have to say the Bose really does a fine job filling the shop with tunes..
I agree with the earlier poster - speakers will handle most anything a shop will throw at them - the real issue is your music source if you want anything other than radio.
That said, I recommend that whatever you use (mine is garage sale-type quality) that you be sure that it has auxilliary RCA inputs. For about $25 you can then hook up an iPod dock, and many issues are solved: space considerations (it just don't get no smaller!), library capacity (the newest pods are obscenely large, at 20 GB, mine has over 3000 songs on it, and isn't even full!), sound quality (excellent!), portability (take it from the shop to the vehicle to the living room to the bedroom, etc) and durability (just don't drop it!)
If you haven't gone MP3, you're behind the times IMHO.
I use an old receiver and speakers that I was going to toss and a Sirius Sat radio with home kit. I love the music and commercial free. I wrecked a lot of CDs and tapes prior to the sat radio.
A $5 clock radio purchased from a Salvation Army Thrift Store 10 years ago. It still keeps ticking.
ChipTam
The family got me I got an iHome (iH6BR is the exact model) for the shop on Father's Day this year, and it's great. Small enough to keep tucked away, but the sound is good. Mostly I use my iPod with it, but it's also a radio, so in the summer I can listen to Red Sox games. I just blow the dust off it once in a while.
Hey Folks,
Anyone know of a good turntable to CD or PC player to basically RIP albums from?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Are you looking for a turntable, or do you have a turntable, and you just want to be able to create MP3s from LPs?
If you have a turntable, and it has standard RCA jacks, you can use an RCA-to-USB adapter, such as an iMic (http://www.griffintechnology.com/), along with recording/editing software, such as Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/).
-Steve
Steve,
I have a B & O turntable but I've heard of devices that can record from LPs to CDs. That's what I would prefer. I found one but am not sure of the quality.
Also, it has filtering capability and I want it all, including the scratches!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"...I've heard of devices that can record from LPs to CDs."
If you've got a decent sound card and a CD-R or CD-RW drive in your computer, then you can use the aforementioned adapter and software to create CDs.
-Steve
Ahhhh....and then maybe you're wanting something more like this
http://www.recordspinner.com/store-products-TEAC-GF-350-TEAC-GF-350-Turntable-CD-Recorder-System_40363622.html
or this
http://www.recordspinner.com/store-products-TEAC-GF-650-TEAC-GF-650---Turntable-CDRecorder-Radio_40363623.html
As I'm pretty sure you already know, TEAC used to be the name in recording equipment back in our day. Don't know how they've fared through the years though.
Hope this helps some.
charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
Edited 11/9/2007 2:31 pm by charlie4444
ok....I think I'm talking to myself on this one. Did anybody actually look at my posts #22 and #24?
You don't need to try to make your old turntable work for this if you don't want to. As you've discussed, the biggest problem is the lack of a preamp if you try to use your old turntable. Why not avoid it altogether by getting a USB Turntable? $100 at Costco. Comes with the Audacity software. Doesn't matter what kind of sound card you've got. See my post #22.
OR...if you don't want to mess with a computer as part of the process, ie, copying the record onto your computer and then burning it back down onto a CD, then see my post #24 for record to CD direct recording.
charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
Bob - I've got this one and this is where I got it from. It works well. The included software has utilities for editing out scratchiness, clicks, etc, etc.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11207411&search=usb%20turntable&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=0&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=usb%20turntable&Ntt=usb%20turntable&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
Bob, I had some old records I wanted to digitize and I tried the record-player directly to PC sound-card input route. The results were not very good. An audiophile friend told me I needed to use an amp with a "phono" input. He said that the range of certain frequencies of sound on LPs were deliberately dampened to keep the needle from jumping right out of the groove. The "phono" input on amps was specifically designed to compensate for this. You can pick up an old, used amp at a yard sale or thrift shop for not much money.
I believe it is because there is no pre-amp on a typical turntable. Also that's why some amps have phono labeled on the connections where you must pulg turntables into that have a pre-amp behind them. It raises the input for the amplifier.
Most of my stereo gear is 70's so it's OOOOLLLLLLLDDDDDDDD, like me!
I think that's how it works. highfigh might weigh in here as he's quite knowledgeable about audio gear.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/9/2007 3:43 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
"I had some old records I wanted to digitize and I tried the record-player directly to PC sound-card input route. The results were not very good. An audiophile friend told me I needed to use an amp with a 'phono' input."
That's correct. The different kinds of audio devices use different signal level standards ("line," "mic," "phono"). Unless otherwise stated, inputs and outputs are at "line" level.
-Steve
Hi Steve and All,
I think LP's use an eq ( RIAA ? ) that needs to be in the signal path for playback which is normally found in the phono input circuit.
At some point I need to figure this out also because I'd like to " burn " my collection of some 600 LP's.
Check ebay. It seems I've seen electronics there that allow you to plug in your turntable and go directly to a built-in cd burner.
Paul
Edited 11/9/2007 4:53 pm ET by colebearanimals
"I think LP's use an eq ( RIAA ? ) that needs to be in the signal path for playback which is normally found in the phono input circuit."
Right. That's part of what I was referring to when I said that different types of signals use different signal level standards. RIAA equalization is a standard that was developed for the compression of the amplitude of low frequency signals. The purpose of this is to deal with the fact that low frequency sounds would otherwise require so much lateral motion of the LP pickup that the grooves would run into each other. Playing an LP signal without RIAA equalization gives a very tinny sound, because the bass is so attenuated.
There are also other differences between different audio signals (impedance and level matching, for example).
-Steve
The good news is I was able to pick up a used amp with a phono input for 10 bucks! And now my pre-Fleetwood Mac, never-released-on-CD, Buckingham Nicks songs sound great in my shop on my iPod! Stevie loves woodworkers, I just know it! ;^)View Image
Paul,
The ones I looked at are outrageously expensive! A previous post has links to one.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The ones I looked at are outrageously expensive! Now I have to have one.. Now of to find the money!
Bob - you gotta ditch the CD idea. MP3 is as big a step from CD as CD was from LP. MP3 players are getting cheaper all the time, the difference in sound quality is indistinguishable (except to a true audiophile with high end equipment), and the storage (space/protection) and more importantly, the ACCESSIBILITY is unparalleled. It is truly a whole new world and once there, you'll wonder how you ever coped with all those derned shiny "coasters". Even if you balk at the MP3 player idea, storage is still significantly reduced when you realize that you can put about 7 hours of music on one MP3 CD.....BUT - you lose the instant accessibility of any one song or artist, and your CD player has to recognise MP3.
As to your other question, I have been digitizing old vinyl and tape for a couple of years now with excellent results. I use my computer, patched into my old audio receiver and then back to the computer via stereo RCA cables and Radio Shack adapters, an Audigy sound card, which has good "cleanup" software, and Audacity editing software (freeware) to separate the tracks on any one LP, cassette, or in my case, R to R tape. I did spring for a new cartridge for my yard sale (gloat!) Pioneer TT.
Make no mistake about it, digitization of analog sources is time consuming. It WILL eat into your shop time if you get serious about it.
It must be recorded in real time, and then split into tracks, but the end result is "permanent" recovery of a lot of favorite old music, that as I will stress again is now accessible as never before. Two of my favorite aspects of this are a) the shuffle feature, which essentially gives you the best, customizable, ad free radio station you've ever heard in your life, and b) the ability to delete or otherwise set aside that really lousy tune that mars an otherwise great album (or conversely, the ability to rescue and hear on a regular basis those two great tunes on an otherwise lousy album). Also, once in MP3 format, you can still burn your music to back to regular CD format should you wish to, but be advised against multigeneration (MP3 to CD to MP3 to CD, etc.) copying. For reasons I won't go into here, this will result in distinct sound quality degredation.
IMHO, MP3 rules!
My CD player plays both MP3 and CDDD formats. I guess I should have been more clear about my intentions. All your comments are great and I wholeheartedly agree. MP3 is where I am headed also. You can put nearly 9 hours on one CD which is great.
Thanks for the info. about reel to reel. I have some really OLD stuff that I recorded back in the 70's. It's Charles Laquidera from BCN in Boston. That guy was a hoot and a half! He used to inhale helium! Kinda like the old Saturday Night Live shows. Man I wish they'd replay Barney Miller on TV!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Man I wish they'd replay Barney Miller on TV!Damn! And I thought you would be more into that pretty blond that could not show her belly button!
It's Charles Laquidera from BCN in Boston.
One of Charles's bits was to call people up and pretend to be someone else. On my birthday about 20 years ago, a friend got Charles to call me early (like 6 AM) to wake me up and say he was calling from the local fire dept to tell me my boat was on fire. After I realized who was calling, I got to request a song. "I wanna be sedated" by the Ramones seemed appropriate.
Charles used to crack me up. Did you ever listen to him on Saturday mornings when he used to take ove BCN? Way funny!
And, how about Mark Parenteau in the late afternoons with his Comedy Hour!?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
38425.45 in reply to 38425.41
Charles used to crack me up.
Me too. I remember when his weather report would tell you whether or not you needed underwear that day. "90 degrees today-no tops, no bottoms!"
Last I heard, he had moved to Hawaii.
"MP3 is as big a step from CD as CD was from LP."In convenience, yes. In sound quality, definitely not. MP3 is a lossy compression scheme that, once it's in that form, information is lost, never to be recovered. The reasoning is that we can't listen to 100% of what we hear and if it's in the background, it won't be noticed. For some people, it's fine. For the ones who listen a lot more critically, it's not fine. This is also the reason the high end equipment is made- the differences are there to be heard and if someone wants good, better or best, they can get it.At some point, I have told people to stop listening to the equipment and listen to the music. OTOH, a great sounding system doesn't HAVE to cost so much that the buyer can't afford to eat. That said, .wav, FLAC and some other file types don't lose information. They do, however, take up quite a bit more space on a hard drive or an MP3 player/iPod. Also, I would never recommend relying on a digital storage device as the only place to store my media.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
For speakers in a shop, anything will work, unless really harsh chemical fumes will be present, and then, the place will need to be ventilated, anyway. Indoor/Outdoor speakers are great because they usually come with mounting brackets and some sound pretty good. Otherwise, yard sale speakers are fine, if you can find decent small ones. If you want big ones, rock on with your bad selves. For the record (no pun intended), I have never spoken those words in my life. For an amp or receiver, same source- yard sale or used department of a stereo store. It's gonna get dirty- why waste a new piece in a shop? It's for background, not listening intently to every nuance. CD/DVD players can be bought new for $39. Some play MP3s. Go get one! If there's a way, go ahead and run a set of cables from the home system, too. Dual coax (RG6 or RG 59- doesn't really matter) work great and if you only have F connectors, fine. F to RCA adaptors are cheap. If you have any humming, a ground loop isolator can be bought at most car audio installation shops. If cabling will be run from the house to the garage/shop, you might as well do it up right- a few RG-6 and a couple of Cat5e ought to do it. That way, if you decide to plant a TV, phone or should ever need IP in there, you won't have to add things. Don't think IP will ever be necessary? How many times have you wanted to look something up on the 'Net and were dirty, grimey and didn't want to take the time to clean up first. By the time you were cleaned up, you either lost interest, forgot or someone asked you to do something. My laptop has a dead battery, the screen is flakey and the resolution is too low for me to program some of the remotes I sell. Guess where it's going? Out in the garage. I already ran the Cat5e and that will go to my router/modem. I don't have Wi-Fi on that one and now that its usefulness is limited, I might as well use it out there since I won't get much for it on trade or selling it outright. That way, I'll be able to control my music server, too (IP based).
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
While this is probably not the forum to argue the finer points, I nevertheless will respond.
Basically, I agree with you. Practically, I do not.
Firstly, as I have already stated, it takes an audiophile and high quality equipment (regardless of cost) to determine sound quality fall off in MP3 files. I defy 90% or better of the population in general, and probably 99.9% of those reading this forum to do so. (No slight intended ladies and gentlemen, just a recognition of habits and priorities!)
The storage issue is huge. As the storage area needed for LPs shrunk dramatically when they were recorded to cassette (or other tape), and similarly when CD technology came around, those advantages are paltry when compared to the space required to store MP3 files. My 20G iPod has 250+ LPs worth of music stored in a package 2" x 4" x 1/2". That's inches, folks..... The new pods are (gulp!) 80 and 160G!!!!
Do I trust this little package to keep all those valuable tunes forever safe and sound? Not on your life. My computer hard drive (perhaps 5" x 8" x 1") stores more than twice as many, if neccessary, and everything that I really care about is backed up to a second hard drive, as extra insurance.
I don't buy MP3 over the net: the sound quality is inferior and they are too often loaded with anti-piracy software. 98% of my files are ripped from CD, LP or old tapes. At 256 kbps, I get excellent sound quality. Granted, some of the old tapes yield disappointing results compared to CD rips, but they are still quite listenable. I haven't brought myself to get rid of all the old analog sources (yet!), but they are stored out of the way. I will probably find it harder to dispose of the CDs - but again their storage is minimal, and out of the way. The key here is that at the site of what now makes noise in my shop, car and living room, I have a huge trove of music to choose from in minimal space.
Which brings me to the most important, most convenient, most innovative, most enjoyable aspect of MP3: ACCESSIBILITY!
No more shuffling through LP covers, cassette boxes, CD jewel cases or wallets or what have you to find what you are looking for. It's all there, immediately, at the touch of a finger, in whatever order, limitation, diversity, singularity, etc., that you could ever wish for.
This is what makes MP3 so wonderful. ACCESSIBILITY. Combine this with minimal storage, high quality sound and (with care and forethought) permanence, and it's the proverbial cat's meow.
Until the next thing comes around, that is......
Apologies to all for this lengthy diatribe on what I (at least) prefer to read for woodworking advice and information.
There is also the issue of loss of hearing as one ages too. The persons ability to hear the full 20 to 20Khz frequency spectrum degrades with age. To that end, MP3's may still satisfy the listening pleasure ofthe older generation, myself included.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
There is also the issue of loss of hearing as one ages too
WHAT?
.......ability to hear the full 20 to 20Khz frequency spectrum degrades with age
Lordy, ain't that the truth!! And, if that ain't bad enough, they're also making way less light than they used to!!
I have an old boom box in the shop that my kids left behind when they moved out several years ago. It ain't pretty, and the sound probably sux, but when I wind it up on a CCR CD, I ain't hearing what it puts out now....................I'm hearing what I heard in '68. And, I still sometimes bust a move if nobody's around. - lol
Dave,
In my case, to make matters worse, I never gave any thought to ear protection back in the 70' & 80's. As residual from using power tools back in the old days, I have developed a slight buzzing in my ears that at times causes sleeping issues.
CCR - some of the best music ever made! Ever see 'em live (back in their heyday)? Of course going to some of their concerts, along with many others, had nothing with my hearing issues...............
Hey Tonight,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
There is also the issue of loss of hearing as one ages too.
YessireeBob (pun intended!)
Also: when concentrating in the shop on fine craftsmanship, +/or when running power tools and machines, who the hell needs to split their brain to try and catch those nuances of "perfect" recordings and playback??
They do exist....but it's probably better to appreciate them in the living room or den with the beverage of one's choice, when one can really pay attention. Many of us know, and we are all constantly warned about the dangers of wandering concentration in the shop.....
Happy shop tunes, Bob, however you decide to do it!
I turn the tunes on when entering the woodshop most of the time. Whenever I'm using power tools I wear the muffs which precludes hearing tunes for the most part.
I do remove them when at the bench and prefer the Blues, Bluegrass, Jazz, perhaps some classical, and a bit of Country. I found a radio station that plays a plethora of all different music types that works great for me.
Variety is my mantra,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Right on, highfigh. I'm never giving up my vinyl collection. There has been some absolutely stunning sound captured on vinyl. Give me my MC240, PV4, and Maggies any day. Just not in my shop.
Paul
I have an ipod that I insert into some speaker device I bought from Apple and can listen to all the jazz I want all day long. Really fills up the shop.
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