Yet another school eliminating its school shop program.
The listing had included things like Powermatic 15″ planer, Rockwell drill press, Delta band saw, workbenches/tables, etc, etc.
The question is, do you think the old, heavy duty shop tools/equipment are worth laying down the hard earned cash on? Or just buy new. Some of that old stuff would practically take a fork lift to move.
I went to a similar auction a few months back. Some of their main shop tools looked like they were from the 1960’s or earlier.
So for example, if one of these old shop items was selling for $50.. and you knew you could buy a new version of the item for the same price, would you go for the new or the old? (assuming the old looked to still be serviceable)
| Tri City School District Industrial Shop equipment & surplus Monday, Feb 21 2005, 5:30 pm CST Tri City High School North of I-72 between Decatur & (11 miles east) Springfield, Illinois Tri City School District, Buffalo, Illinois, Luke Lee Gaule, Auctioneer, Springfield, Illinois, 217-523-7272 |
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. — Walter Percy Chrysler
Replies
If they're in anything close to good condition, buy as much as you can afford. If this auction was here, I would be there in a heartbeat. I know you have seen other posts here about tools and machinery, old and new.
If you were on the school board when this stuff was purchased, would you buy something that would last for a few years or just about forever? I think that by asking about old, heavy duty equipment, you answered your own question.
Yes. Vises and workbenches go cheap, based on similar auctions here (Roanoke, VA area). Hand tools may or may not be worth it. At the Salem City auction, one guy walked off with a No. 7 Bedrock for sixty bucks. Some idiots bid up a set of clamps to $15 over what they were selling for new at the time. I got a handful of Jorgenson sixteen inch wooden clamps for five bucks because they were covered in glue.
If the sale has a couple of library card files, pick one up if they're not too expensive, they make great storage for bits, small tools, screws, etc.
Stationary tools depend on how badly someone wants them. I tend to drop out when the prices go about $200 over what the local rehabbers bid.
Check first to see if the stationary stuff is three phase and adjust your bid accordingly if you have to get a phase converter.
Good luck.
As a retired 'Shop' teacher I can say that most of the older equipment was built to last a lifetime PLUS. Compaired to the same machine in a commercial shop, the school stuff does not get the hard, constant use. The only warning is that most of this stuff is 3 phase. So now you're stuck with the decision of...'what's the price of a 3 phase converter or replacing the motor with a standard 110 or 220 motor'. You may not be able to EASILY find a replacement motor for some of the equipment, but most Delta cabinet saws, scroll saws and drill presses take standatd motors. It's the motors on the planers and jointers that may be a bit harder to replace with 110 or 220 motors. In many cases benchtops can just be flipped over and a few random (vise mounting) screw holes plugged and will have many years of service left. Worse comes to worse, you can always cut up the top and make a load of great cutting boards. SawdustSteve
As a beginner it looks like I might beable to get a few good items at one of these sales. Shop space (18,000 sq ft) is not a problem nor is the 3 phase.
Leon do you know when the next sale in this area will be? My shop is in Dugspur about 60 miles southwest of you on US 221.
One of the things that I am thinking of doing with this building is to put in a humitity control system and cure wet lumber.
Also Leon do you know of any clubs in the area that i might beable to have a look at?
Many Thanks to those of you who are experanced for helping us beginners.
Dane
As a beginner it looks like I might beable to get a few good items at one of these sales. Shop space (18,000 sq ft) is not a problem nor is the 3 phase.
18k! GAWD! Wouldn't THAT be nice!
Leon do you know when the next sale in this area will be? My shop is in Dugspur about 60 miles southwest of you on US 221.
Maybe Leon will have a good connection, but I just check the Sunday auction page. You might try different papers if you want to broaden your target area.
One of the things that I am thinking of doing with this building is to put in a humitity control system and cure wet lumber.
You could probably start a new thread along these lines. I was talking to a local woodworker, and he said that he has let it be known that he is willing to take certain types of logs (ash, oak, maple, etc, etc)... and as a result, people will let him know when they have them available... or when they see some trees knocked down.. or such. When he gets about 25 trees, he calls in the Woodmizer guy to turn them into rough lumber. I think he said Woodmizer dude charges him $35/hr, and it takes him about 6-7hrs to cut up 25 trees.
From there, pick your drying method.jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
Thanks for the idea on the woodmizer. There is a log yard about 9 miles from my shop and a guy with a woodmizer just around the corner from the shop. When the weather clears I will go and talk to both of them.
My biggest problem at the moment is that the basement is not dry. Water from that huge roof is draining off and into it because the gutters are all rusted out. It will take more money then I have at the moment to fix it.
This building is amazing. It is three stories high and you can drive a vehicle into all three floors. A big truck will fit nicly into the second floor with that 14 ft high door. It also came with a 65 cfm air compresser that works and 3 phase power. It does need some work done on it such as the before mentioned roof and the electric needs to be brought up to date.
Again many Thanks for your input.
Dane
Gooooood gawd, you did say 18 THOUSAND sqft, right?
Sounds fantastic. Is it a former industrial building or some such? Sounds neat (a bit of repair is to be expected), got any pics?
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
Yes eightteen thousand square feet (18,000).
Most of the building was used an automachanics shop. In the basement was a recaping shop. Above that was where they did major repairs such has engine overhauls and body work. Next to that minor repairs like oil changes and tune ups. Next to the shop was the largest independent parts store (5,000 sq ft) in all of southwest Virginia. It had the counter down stairs with more parts up stairs (second floor). On the same level as the down stairs part of the parts store and next to it was a small convinounce(my spell check is not working) store with the old US Post Office at the upper end of the whole building. The whole thing sits on 2 acres with a couple of out buildings.
I had some pics of it but don't know were they are now. I will see if i can get some more made up.
Anyone need any commercial space?
Many ideas have been kicked around as to what to do this monster including blowing it up. A couple that i have had is to build smaller shops in the basement and rent them out. An other is to have a contractors supply outlet. This would include house builders, cabnet makers and furniture makers (both pros and hobbiests that can sell more then one piece in a year). In the down stairs part of the old parts store would be a full blown working wood shop (2,500 sq ft). The wood shop would not only be a place to make things but could also be use for a place for some of you masters to have a place to teach others your craft.
I know that this is way off the thread but was compled to reasure you that you read the numbers correctly.
Dane
Dane, that is just OUTSTANDING! I'm still drooling at the thought of 18k sq ft of work space. I assume you got it for a good price?
Gawd, room for EVERYTHING! Plus you could have plenty of wood drying space in doors, not out in a yard with corrugated over top.
And yes, it would be nice if you could find some way to have the structure produce some income, because it will probably require considerable periodic maint.
You could start a new thread on this topic and see what everyone suggests.jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
Check the local papers and local governments for auctions, also check with the State, they list auctions and surplus sales for the State.Blue Ridge Woodturners meet at Craig County High School once a month, on the third Thursday as I recall. Great bunch, I show up now and then, scheduling problems for me with continuing education for work.Blue Ridge Woodturners
Telephone: (540) 366-9240
Jim Dalton
Roanoke and New River Valley AreaLeon Jester
Many thanks for the information on the Blue Ridge Woodturnners. If I can I will try to check them out next month. I have been to the Woodcrafters store there in Roanoke a couple of times now and have enjoyed it.
My wife use to go to some of those school auctions and i think she found about them on the internet. I will find out from her how she did it.
Again many thanks and I hope to one day meet you.
Dane
I would have to recommend school auctions, with the caveats already mentioned. My partner and I have purchased most of the smaller stationary equipment at the Nashville Tn school auctions. Powermatic #90 lathe, Rockwell #46 lathe, Powermatic single end tenoner in perfect condition, oscilating spindle sander, 2 partial Rockwell 14" bandsaws that we combined to make one, Wallace hollow chisel mortiser, Rockwell 6" jointer. All at no more than 1/3 to 1/4 the list price. Some had abuse problems, others had come out of the maintenance shop and were perfect. And we let a fair amount of stuff go for higher prices than we wanted to pay. (or we knew parts were not easily available.) We have a shop full of equipment, and none of the stationary stuff was bought new. Of course, we have gotten better at evaluating stuff, and both of us have been some kind of mechanic in the past (auto and bicycle.)
That bidding fever is normally enhanced by the auctioneer if he's any good at all. He'll sell the first few items before the bidding is done to get people bidding in a hurry (less time to think.) Best bargains are first few items and last items, as the crowd thins and tires.
Dont forget to inspect carefully for abuse problems and missing parts, and set a bidding limit. I try to allow myself a bit of room for excitement, but self control is necessary (and you're in a war with the auctioneer, a professional in this situation.)
Good hunting!
JHarveyB
Thanks for the advice. I think the thing i might do first is to go to one or two and watch. Look at the equipment as though i was going to buy and then watch how things go from there. I have been to a couple of real estate auctions and so i have some idea of the prosses.
Thanks for sharing your experance with those of us who have less of it.
Dane
From everything I have learned, and what I have read here over the years, I would say the old stuff is way better than the new stuff. However, you need to take all the caveats mentioned by others here to heart.
If you are a reasonably competent machine rehabber (or want to learn), there might be some great buys here. I don't do many auctions, but at some I have attended, there is a kind of mania that comes into play, and prices are bid way beyond the real value of the machine. So, I would urge you to carefully look over the machines you are interested in, set a price in your head, and then don't get caught up in the bid frenzy, if it occurs.
I don't do many auctions, but at some I have attended, there is a kind of mania that comes into play, and prices are bid way beyond the real value of the machine. So, I would urge you to carefully look over the machines you are interested in, set a price in your head, and then don't get caught up in the bid frenzy, if it occurs.
I attended another school shop-closing last fall. This one was in Springfield. Very good turnout of mostly middle aged (and older) men. As you mentioned, the bidding mania hit about midway through the auction. A few of the items were going for more than new prices. But eventually things cooled off and it started going fairly cheap.
Some of that old equipment can weigh in at 1k+lbs. Is there a good way to move it about and load it in a truck?jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
I'm a shop teacher with a lot of years in. The equipment from the shops of the post war era is unexcelled. The Rockwell, Atlas, etc brand names are wonderful tools. Properly cared for it will never wear out. The standing joke in my shop is that when I leave, I'm taking it all with me (welders, milling machine, lathes, anvil, furnace - all 500 tons of it). If the tools have been cared for, you will find some great bargains. My estimate is that the average school would be happy to get $.02 on the dollar.
There are a couple of cautions. First, by the time these programs are phased out they have been in decline for a number of years. This may mean that there has been a high turnover rate for the teachers in the room. This starts a downward spiral. Unexperienced people try to maintain equipment they are unfamiliar with. You know what that leads to. Second, abuse is a problem. While the quality is unparalleled and the amount of use is very limited, keeping the present day students from damaging things is difficult. Be careful.
My last editorial is regarding the closing of these programs. Our society is moving to a time when we do not and cannot produce anything. Everything is imported. The elimination of shop programs is a reflection of this. The good news is that in the next generation, those that can build, produce, fabricate and design will always have a job waiting.
Shop Teacher
I've only been to one school auction (a middle school) but I think there were some pretty good deals. Still, they were not giving the stuff away. I picked up a 12" Powermatic planner (single phase with sharpening attachment) for $800. When Powermatic was still making the sharpening attachment that alone was going for almost $1,000. I also got a Powermatic stationary belt-disc sander for $400 (model 30-B with a built-in vacume system). The auction was about 5 years ago and the machinery was perhaps 20 years old at the time. All of the tools appeared to be in excellent condition and besides putting moveable bases on the two machines I purchased I haven't had to do any repairs on them. Anyway, that's just my experience.
Chip
You have to know a little bit about equipment to make an intelligent decision. As others have said, 3 phase is something you might want to avoid. The cost of running a converter or re-powering can be expensive. Not all the old equipment is up to the standards of todays. A 60's Rockwell saw or Oliver planer could be a great tool if they have been taken care of correctly. Tools that come out of Industrial arts classes may not have been used or serviced well. Tools from a Vocational center are more likely to have been used by someone with more extensive knowledge of them.
Some manufacturers like Powermatic and J-line were not very good to begin with. Often bearings, accessories, switches are not there or incorrect. I was a vocational teacher. The person I replaced must have believed that, if tight was good, broken was better. Almost every piece of equipment had rounded over nuts and bolts on the important unseen parts for adjustment and blade connections. High school students can be very destructive. It's amazing how some 120# kid can break a Wilton vice. I finally caught one student who was cranking on a vice just a little every day to break off the handle. I think he wanted it for a pot pipe or weapon. Some kids would stick nails in motors and do anything they could think of to cause trouble. Teaching high school isn't what you think it may be. If there are troubled youth in a school system you can bet they are in the vocational programs. I had to lock up all the awls, utility knives, etc. after students started to steal them and stab each other once they left my class.
With older portable tools, they can be very outdated. Skill saws can coast for a day and a half when you let go of the trigger. There can be some great bargains but you'd better know what you are buying.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
i agree with steve that they should be built for the long haul check out whats there and then check to see if parts are avail. they will probably be heavy stuff be ready watch your back.
Thomas B. Palumbo
CUSTOM WOODWORKING
How are you fellas finding out about these auctions? I would love to attend one.
How are you fellas finding out about these auctions? I would love to attend one.
I just find them in the Sunday auction section (behind real estate in our paper). There can't be too many schools around here with shop class left. Most of shut them down in favor of computer labs that cost 10 times as much and are obsolete in 5 years.
jt8
The reason so many people never get anywhere in life is because when opportunity knocks, they are out in the backyard looking for four-leaf clovers. -- Walter Percy Chrysler
I would if they were older tools.
First married, living in an apt, I used to go to a "night school" wwing class just to use the tools. One fall I re-enlisted only to find that all the classic 1950's tools had been "upgraded" to cheapo pseudo-tools that was always broken.
I'd buy the older power tools, handtools if usable, but not any low-end crap bought by accountants instead of trade teachers. And it would be a bitter sweet purchase, cause it would mean just another elimination or dumbing down of what used to be universally accepted aspect of education.
Eric
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled