Hey all,
I’ve decided to build my first workbench, because I build big things and good big benches are expensive. My question is, if you buy a premade benchtop (for example, made by Grizzly) will it be suitably flat, or do they typically require a lot of flattening? And can the finish on premade tables be a problem?
Phil
Replies
Hi Phil,
I got my bench top from the dumpster of a replacement door installation business. I first contacted them if it would be alright with them. The owner suggested I come back in a couple days because he was removing HUGE fire rated doors from a local movie theatre. Doors, of course, are designed to be dead flat. A good solid core door makes a fine and excellent bench top. Mine is now over 15 yers old and still perfect. Best of all, it was FREE.
I, too, thought solid core doors would be a great workbenchtop and found 5 such doors in a "state surplus" dumbster. I replaced my bench top with one of the doors, but discovered that the internal "solid" was particleboard instead of solid wood. This has prevented me from installing benchdogs and over the 3 months I have had it, has already dipped in the middle. Now I need to add bracing, of some sort, to shore up the middle. I still like it better that what I had, but if I had my druthers, I would perfer a real solid core door. I think it would stronger and not dip in the middle.
"The owner suggested I come back in a couple days because he was removing HUGE fire rated doors from a local movie theatre. "I have one bench that features a 9' commercial door as a top, it's a 1 1/2 hour fire rated door. Words of caution, the filler material is not wood but something that looks like a gypsum based substance, and secondly there is a metal frame inside the door so be careful about cutting these things. But I will say that this darn thing is heavy, the door must weigh 175 pounds.
Edited 4/26/2006 12:06 am ET by tangomike
ASBESTOS CAUTION !!!!! Those Fire rated doors which are being removed from theaters with the "gypsum" cores are probably being removed because that core is asbestos. And you sure don't want to be drilling them to attach a vise or anything else. And beating on them may set loose an unseen barrage of asbestos fibers. FAR worse than any wood dust you may breathe in. Asbestosis or Mesotheleoma (SP) is fatal and untreatable.
A word to the wise.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 5/2/2006 12:59 pm ET by BruceS
Hi Don,
I found a damaged solid core door (probably not fire rated) at a hardware store and brought it home for use on a new workbench, but found it was the particle board variety, which pretty much eliminates it for use as a workbench with dog holes. But door makes a great assembly table because of its flatness. My plan is to cut it into smaller pieces and use them on an assembly table I've already built. This table has tool drawers, but I'll remove the drawer boxes and substitute the door sections and mount them on heavy duty slides. They will give me two new pull-out surfaces at different working heights for assembling cabinet carcases and other large objects.
Dave
I too am planning to build a nice workbench after years of a bench covered with hardboard. Have you checked into various sources of butcher block? the ones at Woodcraft Supply seem awfully pricey.
Woodmasher
I too am planning to build a nice workbench after years of a bench covered with hardboard. Me too.. I use my bench covered with hardboard a sheet of 3/4 MDF (lift off) so I do NOT mess up my 'good' bench.
Hardboard will not move nearly as much as solid wood.
Does anyone have any advice regarding 1 3/8 vs 1 7/8 thick maple for a workbench?-s
Personally I prefer a HEAVY work bench. Getting ready to build a new bench and it's going to be 1" X 2 " (laminated) or better edge grain Birch, Top will be about 30" X 86" plus tool tray.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
ok, so ignorant question, but I've never worked on a good quality bench. Why so heavy? If you can make the structure rigid what does the massive top get you? I'm guessing it vibrates less when you bang on it - is that the issue or something else?I need a bench so I'm working on a design that I like (lots of storage, rolling, fold down leaves to extend the size, etc)
storme,
When I'm jointing a board that may hang off the bench two or three feet...I need weight in that bench and a design that inhibits racking. Even though I have that, I still need to readjust the bench from time to time because its walked while in use. Perhaps if my bench were longer the long boards would have less affect.
Storme, One reason for weight, if you're doing a lot of hand planing, is that you don't want to -- literally -- chase your bench all over your shop as you're planing. For that purpose, the heavier the better....300 lbs or more works well (you can get that kind of weight with under-bench storage).James
I'm wondering then if it doesn't make more sense to put the weight on the bottom where it can do the most good and go for a thinner top. My design so far is basically a rolling plywood box with a top on it and all my tools tucked under the bench along with DC and power. I need to do several kinds of work in my workshop so having the woodworking bench be one discrete thing I can roll away is a plus. But not having done much woodworking I'm looking for details in books and on this board.
Storme,
You'll find the inclusion of a good bench in your shop to have a huge impact on your woodworking....certainly equal to that of the cabinet saw. At the risk of being overly dramatic, it kinda transforms your focus from being a carpenter to a furniture maker with that one new tool (yup, the workbench is a tool). You'll want to keep it in place for helping you with initial wood selection and matching, organization of milled pieces, joinery, assembly and maybe finishing. My shop is tiny but I still need three flat areas to make stuff. So giving it(the workbench) mobility also makes it vulnerable to movement when in use...which is a pain. Lastly, I've built wall cabinets for the handtools and planes above my workbench so the bench needs to stay where it is....
Personally, I think the thickness issue is a bit overdone. Most chopping happens on the first 4-6" of the bench top. You could have a 1 1/2" thick field and thicker on the edges and never notice the difference.
Edited 4/23/2006 5:05 pm ET by BG
OK, a perfect workbench is a wonderful thing - and so is a perfect shop. But not all of us can have that so the priorities have to be looked at. I live in a retirement condo, a two bedroom apartment with a small enclosed porch. My lady has the second bedroom, as we operate on different sleeping schedules and she needs her own room. That left me with a walk-in closet off my bedroom to convert to a workshop, and it is 5' x 5', less an intrusion into the square by the #### end of a linen closet in the hall. In that workshop I have a 4 1/2 foot Sears workbench with an MDF top, a Delta midi lathe on a home made stand. A 10" drill press and a 10" bandsaw reside on the workbench pushed to the end when not in use. The scroll saw and the disc/belt sander are on a bottom shelf (and are lifted to the benchtop when needed, and at 70 years I can still lift them). The dust collection is a rolling $100 Sears suction machine with a 4" intake, then converters to hoses attachable to each machine (except the lathe has a permanent hood and hose that I can connect to the pump). I did have to put the table saw in the bedroom, but it does have a bag under the frame so there is little to do other than turn on the wall mounted shop vac in the bedroom and sweep it with the hose.
OK, hand planing. A cheap Sears (on sale it was $50) light B&D Workmate knockoff. I do a lot of hand planing. The table is on the porch (another cheap vacuum nearbye to clean up after). I clamp the workpiece into the table and put my foot on the rail to hold it down. And this isn't rough work, I make musical instruments and have to plane quite accurately.
Who needs a flat surface, my band saw and drill press are quite happy rocking and rolling on the rather bent surface of my workshop table (I had to remove some of the support to affix a vise). They don't care, and neither do I. Their surface is fixed to their own base. I use a Wagner Saf-T-Planer (a spinning flat cutter) on the drill press to thickness plane lute ribs within a tenth of a millimeter over a length of about 2 feet and a width of 3 inches. It isn't the level of the table, it is the level of the workpiece to the tool.
Oh yeah, a flat surface is needed to lap a hand plane, or resurface a waterstone. I've a piece of plate glass that was the top on a table that is long gone. It's convenient as I can put it across the arms of my chair while drinking a beer and watching TV, making the boring process of lapping a bit more interesting.
Pounding, one doesn't do that in an upstairs apartment (oops, I lied, I do it). But better to make the fit such that it is more a tapping than a pounding. And if you really need to have a wooden anvil square off the ends of a big log and put it outside.
Pardon the diatribe, but one needs to consider the various ways to skin a cat (and mine is sitting next to me now, luckily she isn't looking at what I'm writing). Better that I sign off now before the cat reads this and administers me a dose of cat anger.
Best, Jon
I like a heavy bench. The last bench I have made has a top of two sheets of 3/4 in plywood covered with scrap ash flooring( Tongue and Groove -3in wide). It looks great and doesn't move with heavy working. I finish with water based varnish and re coat about once a year after light sanding. Big Tee
Since i flatten one side of my boards with a handplane, i check the flatness by flipping the board over and check it against the benchtop (which is my reference surface), so yeah flatness here counts, but it all depends what you do with it
By the way, my bench is almost finished, started by laminating 2x4's, finished the top, decided it was too soft, went to Ikea (you guys have Ikea in the US???) bought a beech kitchen counter top (1 1/8 thick) about $130 and cut it to size, screwed it on top of the 2x4's. Now, I used to have to hold the rear leg with my foot so the bench would not move, even then the rear would lift in the air when i reached the front while planing, thats with a box of steel clamps and a 60# bag of mortar on the base. Now this thing is rock solid, doesnt move, doesnt rack
I have had my 53" X 23" X 1-1/2" slab from mixed spices ready a couple of weeks ago. Haven't got the chance to do the flattening yet - patiently waiting for veritas hand plane ordered 10 weeks ago to arrive. Veritas oh veritas ! please knock my door soon and I'll teach you how to shave hard & soft board at one go.
Ha. Ha Ha.... I'm crying in my laugh.
Time to go home.
MMHH have you checked with Lee Valley about your order?? For myself, I dont think I ever waited more than 2 days for a Lee Valley order.
Anyways, i feel for you, even 2 days is a long time to wait for a new toy to arrive.
I ordered a LN iron miter plane earlier this week and UPS tells me it'll arrive Tuesday.
Anticipation. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi Bouboubomber,
I am sorry....!!, I should have mentioned in my post that the merchandise was to be shipped to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia via surface mail and the expected delivery time is between 8 to 10 weeks. At the time of the order, I did not need them so urgently.
I shall check with LV after the 11th week lapses.
Thank
Masrol
KUL, MY
Just to update my post regarding my merchandise ordered from LV. I collected the parcel at Post Office, today May 10th 2006. Everything is OK.
Masrol
I've tried my new Veritas Low-angle smooth plane last night. Wow ! I feel like never want to stop shaving ... very smooth. I love the blade, even before I fine honing it. The price is reasonable.
My plan is to buy bevel up and scrub plane and I will never switch on my power hand planer again.... let my neighbour have uninterrupted sleep there after. ..
Masrol
Edited 5/11/2006 4:40 am by Masrol
Storme,
Yes, it makes very good sense to put the majority of the weight on the bottom -- under-bench (tool) storage is one way to do that. Weight at a lower height obviously helps keep the center of gravity reasonably low, so that there is less likelihood of inadvertently tipping your bench over. If you look at some of the benches in the Workbench Book, and others, you'll see what I mean.
For top thickness, anywhere between about 2 and 4 inches should work fine. If you are going to use bench dogs and hold fasts, then you'll probably want to go toward the thicker end of the scale, because the extra thickness gives them a more to hold on to. It also reduces the shaft pressure against the dog/hold-fast hole, and reduces the damage that too much pressure can cause (this is more of an over-time problem than an immediate one-time catastrophic problem....).
Flatness: try to get your bench reasonably flat, without being obsessive about it. One ten thousandth of an inch deviation over 84 inches is gross overkill for woodworking. Just go for getting it "practically" flat -- say a 1/64th or 1/32nd inch deviation over the length and width of the bench. It will make hand work easier, and, if you use the bench for assembly, will make putting your project together "square" much easier.
Unless you can come up with a method to "decouple" your bench from the roller/casters when you are working on it -- so it will be stable and stationary -- I really would recommend against a "rolling" work bench. You'd be surprised at how much force you can generate using a #5 or #7 plane to edge plan a six foot long board: it is relatively easy to move a 275 lb bench several inches just taking medium thickness shavings from the edge of a board. So....heavy, stable, and stationary are very important if you're going to be using hand tools.
Hope this of some use to you.
James
Edited 5/3/2006 12:59 pm by pzgren
Edited 5/3/2006 1:00 pm by pzgren
very helpful, thanks. I'm still working out how to anchor the table, it really does have to be rolling but if I know it's going to be an issue before hand I can plan for it so I'm not too worried about coming up with a solid solution.
My workbench is rolling. however, it's built on the design that Americanwoodworker featured about 2.5 years ago. I have a 30x72" top that is 3" thick hard maple. It has 6 400lb non-locking swivel casters underneath it. Face vice, end vice, full extension drawers / and a 33^ft dessicant for removing moisture from the middle cabinet where all the planes and files are to reside (still need to mount these slides I'm talking about). Significant plywood carcasses and a 2x4 base that has 2 cross braces (making 3 compartments into which one pair of the casters reside).
I would guess that the overall weight is nearly 600 lbs. It will move without too much trouble (granted I'm 6'3" 210) but, it's not easily mobile. At least it is mobile.
The solution to the mobility reduction was an easy one. 4 U shaped feet with sandpaper on the backside (concrete floor) that fits neatly under the bench with a jimmy pry bar (18"). I place one in each of the 4 corners and the result is the wheels clear the ground by about 1/8-1/4"). At 600 lbs w/o tools, this bench does not move once I put the feet under neath it. Realize that I don't move it all that often either, so the hassle of lifting it onto its feet isn't that big of a deal. Takes about 1 min to do all 4 feet. Oh, it happens to be the same height as my table saw too.
ping me if you want to know which magazine issue it was.
Cheers~Michael
yeah I was thinking of something along that line. I was going to go for locking casters for everyday use and then wedges or a cross piece of wood which is 1/4" too big so that the whole thing could rest on solid wood instead of wheels when I really wanted it to be secure. Lots of ways to skin this cat. Lee Valley also sells spring loaded feet that push down.thanks for the ideas, I hadn't thought of desiccant...
From the "For what its worth" Dept.
Can the idea of a rolling primary bench. The need for a good bench to have heft is paramount in my opinion. The planing you'll have to do on it requires a fixed bench. make it so that it breaks down just in case you decide to move someday. ( not move the bench, move you and the household)
A perfectly flat top is a waste of time on a primary bench. It should be flat but you don't need to take this to an extreme If you need a perfectly flat surface find an old pool table slate and make a bench from that. ( just don't go beating on it though!)
You'll never regret putting a bench in the middle of the room. The flexibility you get when making big projects is great. At first I thought tool trays were a waste but since I put one on my bench Id do it again in a mili second.
The old timers had it right. The Dominy Bench and the Shaker bench ( if you don't have it, buy the Workbench Book by Scott Landis) were both long both ( my dominy era bench is 10 1/2 ft long) had a thick (3-5' thick) front board of about 10-15" wide made of hardwood and the remaining top boards being planks making a bench over 33" wide. You'll beat on the front of the bench, not the back
A couple good vises strategically placed will make or break your bench. It was told to me that a man has to build 2 benches; the second one is so that he can correct his mistakes on the first. My second bench has record vises on it. I don't regret the choice. I do love those pattern makers vise's but at over $200 each.......... get a couple record knock offs from Taiwan and use the extra money to buy a L-N rabbeting block plane .
All this from a guy who owns 5 benches and made 2 of them. Id call myself Johnny Bench but that name is taken!Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
You'll never regret putting the bench in the middle of the room.
I think I would regret having the bench in the middle of the room if it came to that or losing that pretty little thing that flits around the house making my meals. It sometimes comes down to space available and space management, etc. I don't have this problem, but it seems to me if you just have to get the bench out of the way, you might find the kind of caster that would lift the bench from the floor when you needed to move it instead of just locking. I have a set of those casters but I don't think they are heavy duty enough for heavy equipment. They are hard to find.
I see all of this talk about perfectly flat benches and am wondering if anyone has assembled a table or chair on a perfectly flat surface and found a floor that was as flat. I'm still looking for a truly flat floor. Also, a totally flat and straight wall, ceiling, plumb or square anything, etc. OTOH, it would be nice to make the one true perfect object. I think it was Vince Lombardi who said, "Don't strive for perfection, nobody achieves that. Strive for excellence".
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Fortunately, with 750 ft/sq of heated shop seperated from my house I dont have that problem. However if you can do it without upsetting the bride, Id put the bench in the middle of the roomWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
ah yes, the workbench/marital relations thread...funny how often SO's come into the discussion on this board. Thanks all, for the fine advice.-s
Therin lies the real beauty of a seperate shop! My SO has her castle ( the hiuse) and I have mine. She seldom ventures out to the shop as it is a bit too messy for her ( Hey! Its a working shop, babe. Ill clean up after this project is done!). A man needs a safe haven.Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Workbench in middle or the wife.
cherryjohn, I just knew (I hoped, I hoped) you would make that exception for me.
Agreed. Heavy benches rock (or maybe shouldn't!). Energy absorbed by a flexing or moving workbench is energy that isn't being transfered to the workpiece. Mine has a trestle made from laminated spruce 2x6's. It is strong and rigid, but relatively light. So I screwed angle iron inside the lower stretchers and rails and hung concrete sidewalk blocks between them. It has a 4" thick laminated poplar top that is 7 feet long and 30" deep and through-bolted with ready rod every 10 inches. The top floats on weather stripping and is loosely pinned in place at two points. Without a built-in cabinet, the bench probably weighs around 450 pounds. The materials for this bench came in at around $350 including the hardware and large iron front vise. Because of the mass of the bench, I can really heave on it with a hand plane, and bash, pound, scrape, and whatever else I need to do. The bench stays put, and is satisfyingly solid when I need to I throw some body weight into the work.
Dave in Alberta
Well, The others pretty well sumed it up. Another reason is that I'am going to hang an old Emmert "turtleback" on the bench, the brute weighs 78 lbs. Don't want to call the rescue squad to lift the mess off of me. And agree with another post, A "pretty" bench is also an expression of your workWork Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
A few years ago I made a workbench using southern yellow pine for the top. Final size was 3" x 3' x 5' (to fit a small shop) and mounted on reclaimed cabinets with drawers. I added casters so I could move the bench around a bit.
I hand selected clear 2x4's and cut and jointed them to 3 x 1 1/2 then glued up the laminations on the long side. After it was assembled the thought occurred to me: How am I going to lift this thing? :-)
Well, it was tough going and with the help of the spouse and smart use of levers I was able to move this hunk of wood around, plane flat (on one side) and finish with multiple coats of poly.
I mounted a cast iron vise at one end and have been very pleased with the result. I can really bang on a work piece if needed and this bench just shrugs it off. If I had to do it again I would still use southern yellow pine but go easy on the thickness. Sheesh learned my lesson on this project.
Marty
Hey everyone, another source for benchtops is McMaster-Carr. Excellent website also, it's rated tops. We use them for everything here at work. http://www.mcmaster.com
Keep an eye open for bowling alley demolition, great table tops.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S. Counter Sales, Tech Rep. http://WWW.EAGLEAMERICA.COM
Perfectplank.com
Ask about 3" thick wildwood maple.
They make pieces up to 6' wide and 16' long...
My 30"x72"x2 7/8" solid maple top cost $264 (picked up) shipping rates are very reasonable considering the weight of this stuff.
Just my suggestion, but I had a fabulous experience with them
Dear Michael;
Perfectplank.com looks like exactly what I'm looking for, and since I'm in California shipping should be fairly cheap. Thanks for the tip.
Phil
Glad to help.
I've personally visited their factory (I live near Sacramento) it's quite an operation.
Great people, excellent product. Prices for my top were less than what I could buy raw 8/4 material for. Was really a simple decision.
Cheers~Michael
Phil,
I suspect the flatness of these factory made table tops to be pretty good (i.e. pretty flat). It will probab;y come off some sort of thickness sander and will very likely be flatter than something you could make yourself.
That said, flatness isn't a huge issue. People who make benches always try hard tto flatten them, and I have as well. But perform a surprise inspection in my shop and you'll probably find my bench to be wildly (3/16"? 1/4"?) out of flat. Theoretically, this should be a serious problem. But I keep making things and I don't seem to have too much of a problem.
Just a couple of controversial opinions that may help:
1) If you want to work with hand tools- especially saws- not every design will do. Guys build "ultimate workbenches" but its surprising how ill equiped thay can be for even the most basic functions (edge work for example). Ultimate indeed.
2) Regardless of the size of your work, its advantageous to have a bench as long as the stock you buy ... like 8'. Period benches are always very long. I think teh Dominy benches are both over 10' long.
3) A really thick top isn't neccessary. Good benches can be made from thin material. Though its impossible to clamp to, the English Nicholson bench (see Williamsburg) is an effective design for 2 by stock.
4) I don't do alot of "pounding". If you need a plastic dead blow sledge hammer to get your joints together, you may want to take your timberframing projects outside where they belong. Strength and stiffness are important, but not imho as important as height and length.
5) Vises are vices. Most don't work as they should. Those that do aren't all that useful. The simplest vises with the most direct load paths seem to work the best- A leg vise is hard to beat and I prefer my wooden twin screw to the modern versions. Tail vises work okay as vises, but they stink for planing. I have one and use it, but I'd skip it next time. I think its perfecatly reasonable to make a stout table with no vises. Almost anything you could ever want to hold can be held better with a few clamps or holdfasts.
Good luck with the bench.
Adam
Hi Phil I built my Workbench in 1962 from discarded 2 by4's with a 4by6 front edge.It measures 3by8 feet.It's 3 plus inches thick has served me well.when doing heavy work like chiseling out waste material for dovetailing,tool's don't bounce of your bench.Fir was not the best choice,it was all I had at the time.It served ed me well for 44 Years. Top's don't have to be perfectly flat or finished like your project.
Edited 4/23/2006 3:26 pm ET by Berliner
When we talk in absolutes (benchtops don't need to be flat like finished work) it's useful to include information that's relevant -- as in, do you feel there's no need for any flat surfaces in the shop, or do you have a separate, dead-flat assembly table...My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi I agree with you that a shop needs a perfectly flat top to work on.When I built my table it was close to perfect.Since your reply I checked it and I found out that it needs some dressing up.Since I am working in a small area 12x26 feet I have no space for an assembly table.For most of my project's I use my old Atlas table saw, it is really flat.Thanks for your input.By the way I like your slogan.
I bought a 24x96 benchtop from Grizzly and it was dead flat.. and relatively cheap. You really can't go wrong with their laminated benchtops.
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