So a friend and I were listening to the recent Wood Talk Online. If you don’t know what that is, it is a podcast by Marc Spagnuolo (The Wood Whisperer)and Matt Vanderlist (Matt’s Basement Workshop) and is a chat about wood related things and question answering. So this friend Callum Kendall, aka The Timber Kid. www.thetimberkid.com and I aka Cocobolo Boy www.cocoboloboy.co.nr were planning to do a simmilar thing. we need a title of the show, and topics. oh, and listeners 🙂
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Replies
Andy,
Kudos to you for your ambition.
Perhaps you might consider avoiding too much of the "how to do this WW operation" and also "stuff about these tools" in favour of discussion about design and style? There is little on the web about design/style in furniture compared to the enormous amount of tool and process-oriented information.
For example, you might be interested in researching and explaining, from a young-modern viewpoint, the design-drivers for some of the older and established styles such as Chippendale, Federal et al. What is it abut them that sees their continuing appeal to some woodworkers and their "customers"? We know what the museum role-players like about it but what about real people? What does a person of the current younger generation find in olden styles, besides an interesting technical challenge to make?
Another discussion might consider the great swathe of contemporary furniture, which seems to have some common features but no single coherent design paradigm, as do those older styles. It would be interesting if you could find one or three contemporary makers to interrogate concerning their design-drives and aesthetic considerations. It would be interesting to read or hear the thoughts of someone young coming to woodworking with an interest in establishing their own style.
In short, whilst you might emulate the information-dissemination model of the woodwhisperer and similar, it would be good if you could avoid repeating their how-to content in another guise.
Lataxe
PS Personally I find too much "look at me the funny guy" content in such media rather grating. It needs to be entertaining but not at the expense of seriously good content.
Andy,
Interesting idea.
You asked for free advice. What you get is worth every penny. So here goes. I will make only two points.
1) Giving everybody a silly name sounds like a remake of wild west movies where everyone had a name like "the Cisco Kid", or like TV wrestling, where everybody had a name like "Killer Joe". To me, this is quite childish. It focuses on something which is not CENTRAL to woodworking. It indicates to me that the folks doing the talking are not worth listening to, even before I have listened.
I like Norm Abrams. No fake names. No BS. Just good solid woodworking and homebuilding. (maybe not fine woodworking, but solid woodworking). Norm is a standup guy, if you know what I mean. He exudes "substance". To me The Cisco Kid and The Sundance Kid and Killer Joe exhude something thinner.
2) The fact that you are looking for things to talk about tells me that you are probably not worth listening to. You should talk about those things that you are VERY GOOD AT AND LOVE TO DO. You should talk about those things that you have wisdom on.
Otherwise you are nothing more than one of the talking heads on Network News -- pretty faces that read the teleprompter.
Here on Knots, the best posts ever were posted by Samson, in which he have how-to info on handmaking raised panel doors. I havent seen that anywhere else. Sean (Samson) is one of the best woodworkers I have come across. He has as high standards as I have seen, and he loves the stuff, and he is glad to share what he knows.
Note that Sean doesn't blurt about things he doesn't know about. That makes him someone who I listen to every chance I get.
But if I hear some folks with funny names are looking for things to talk about, I can't imagine much substance, just gloss and fancy words. There is already too much of that.
SO you have heard my two comments. Now I can really help you decide what to talk about. But to do that I need to know if you have any skills. Please tell me what your woodworking specialties are, and how good your at them. When you tell me that, I can advise you what to talk about.
As of right now, with the info I have, I would advise you to give up the idea.
Have fun.
Mel
PS think of me as Simon on American Idol.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Nel, you grump:
"As of right now, with the info I have, I would advise you to give up the idea".
If we are to discourage woodworking "talking heads" on the internet perhaps we should consider sending the boys around to your hoosey with an offer you can't refuse? One hopes you are just having one of your strange mel-jokes and not actively pouring cold water on an enthusiastic lad, just because he has adopted a rather teenage pseudonym.
Lataxe, looking about for his "mizable ole git" labeller and the prod for pushing them into the gimmery, where they can annoy the nurseys (at their peril).
Sire,
Yup, he told me that I was gonna geet nasty when I git as old as him! Only thang is I caint nivver catch up wiv him.
Hey you seen me uppers clackin about on dee flo?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/10/2009 5:02 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
David,
When you write about the work you do which is different than others, you are fascinating to read. When Ray talks about the work he does, he is fascinating to read. When Rob talks about the Federal period that he does, he is fascinating to read.I wonder, suppose you decided to do an article on carving in the Chippendale style, or Rob decided to write on making modern rockers, or Ray decided to write an article on "focussing only on new tools", I doubt any of those things would be worth reading. I enjoy reading what was written "with soul". I do not enjoy reading the writing of a junior high schooler who went to the library and read up on the War of 1812, and rewrote what they read.I got quite good at bowl making. I wrote a book on it, which someone is looking into publishing. I believe that anyone interested in bowl carving might find it interesting and useful. I wrote from deep personal experience. Suppose I did a writeup on how to make hand made dovetails -- I don't think my writeup would be all that interesting. I have experience, but nothing to make me stand out.Tell me, David, why would anyone want to read the ramblings of a person who is not expert at what they are writing about? For instance, why would you read anything that I wrote? I am quite realistic about my shortcomings, which are legion. Maybe we should have a thread on picking the fifty worst woodworking books in the world. There are some really lousy books out there. We don't need more. We certainly don't need more "wood yellers" or such who see themselves as talking heads who have no experience. When I hear about the experience these guys have, I can tell you what they are likely to write well about. By the way, just because you have a woodworking skill, that does not mean that you can write well about it. Now, there are people who are interesting writers, even though they are not woodworkers. Take Hemingway for example, or maybe Shakespeare (however you spell his name). Luckily they were not writing about woodwork. Only time will tell if these guys will be "accepted". But let me make a bet with you. One quid. When these guys tell me their skills and skill levels, I will make a bet as to whether they have a chance of success or not. If I guess wrong, you win. Are you ready?
Have you ever known me to be wrong? :-)
Mel
PS if you remember, I began my message to the OP with the statement that the advice I am giving him is worth what he paid for it. How much more blatant could I be about my competence in giving advice in this matter???? I SCREAMED OUT ABOUT MY INCOMPETENCE. Others are less forward in such matters. If I were the OP, I would not listen to me. But he asked, and I answered. He specifically did not ask for competent advice. He only asked for advice, which is what I provided.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
You gripe, ".....why would anyone want to read the ramblings of a person who is not expert at what they are writing about"?
Hmmm, if we take this sentiment to heart I'm afraid we must push the "ignore this rambling eejit" button agin the Mel 9619 avatar. Luckily for you, the sentiment is mere goosewipe & poodlejuice.
"Experts" have well-potted (well-rotted sometimes) views that are often formulaic and a mere summary of stuff that is everywhere in the cultural memespace. They are purveyors of sometimes moribund traditions, as well as useful sources of information to those who are ignorant of this topic or that. But a fresh and unsullied (by the usual prejudices) mind will often reveal a new perspective on matters.
Also, I for one like to get a window into the strange and foreign thought processes of others, such as mad ole Yanks and young persons who listen to incomprehensible music. This is necessary if one is to deal with the world at large.
Still, ole pharts never seem to understand this. Perhaps it's because their little grey cells have solidified into a hardwired set of certainties, in which case - off to the gimmery with the rascals! Here awaits their final perch from which they will soon topple in a permanently-ossified fashion, soon to be forgot even by the relatives, who will be too busy selling their tools for cash to buy the latest ipod.
Lataxe, strenuously resisting his own brain-ossification.
The fact that you are looking for things to talk about tells me that you are probably not worth listening to.
AHA! I knew it!!
Mel is really another alias of Charles.
Seriously, Mel, I think you've gone off the deep end. Try some encouragement with kids - it goes a long way.
If your kid came up to you and said "hey dad, I want to do ______" Would you have said: "That's freakin stupid, it will never work out!"
What we need is more young people involved in woodworking with fresh ideas. Otherwise, we'll all just end up being retired old farts working part-time at Woodcraft and getting senior coffee at McDonalds ;-)
Lee
Lee,
I appreciate your thoughts. We disagree strongly. If the OP wrote and said he wanted to make a masterpiece, I would be very encouraging. If he wrote and said that he wants to make a masterpiece but doesn't want to put in any time learning the requisite skills, I would encourage him to opt out of woodworking.Once or twice a year, I get a request from a person who wants to get into the field of woodworking on a professional basis. I don't encourage them to do this. I encourage them to find out what they are getting into in a VERY REAL WAY -- by contacting real professional woodworkers, and seeing what is really involved. Let's get beyond the fantasy and the romance of the lonely woodworker. I suppose I would be nicer if I just said, "Dive in, kid. Just borrow a few thou to buy some tools, and go put up your shingle. Woodworking is a wonderful and forgiving profession. Follow your dream. Watch movies like "Rocky". Think positive thoughts. YOU WILL BE A SUCCESS." EGAD, that would neither be honest or good advice. I dont advise people to stay out of woodwork, or out of the NFL or the NBA, but I do try to get them to think realistically for a moment.When someone says that they want to write a book or start a show about some aspect of woodworking, I have only one question -- what is your competence in woodworking? I love to read stuff written by a highly competent person, about their accomplishments. If I see a youngster with no real accomplishments who wants to use a funny name and talk about stuff which he is not expert in, I HEARTILY RECOMMEND HE TRY SOMETHING ELSE. This is what I would recommend to my kids. I would not recommend differently to a stranger.BUT we have not learned if the OP has any woodworking competence. If he has, he may become one of the greats of the woodworking media, say another Norm Abrams.So tell me, Lee, Suppose I said that I want to do a national TV show on building houses, called "This Really Old House", and you knew that I didn't have any competence in that area, what would you recommend to me? PLEASE BE TRUTHFUL. Be brutally truthful with me. Suppose that I also said that I wasn't going to use my name, but I want to be called "The Old House Whisperer", or something like that. Would that enthrall you? Anyone can say something nice to you. How's this. Lee, you are the greatest furniture maker in the history of the world.How do you feel now? Suppose you went to a doctor and he found that you had a disease, and said to you, "Lee, you are fine. Go get em, dude." Would that make you feel good?Suppose that (and this is a longshot), you asked for advice on a woodworking project, and I happened to be highly experienced in the thing you were doing, and I suggested you drop your current approach in favor of another? Wouldn't that be the nicest thing I could do for you? or should I just say, "Great job, Lee, go get em?"As you well know, not all advice on Knots is worth taking. The hardest thing to discern is which is the stuff you should take, and which you should leave. Lataxe was very upbeat to the OP. I don't think he was very helpful, but he was very upbeat. I believe my advice cut to the chase. I didn't do it to be mean, and I prefaced it with the words that my advice is worth what you paid for it. So far, I haven't given much advice to the OP. He asked what he should talk about, and I asked for a list of his competences. I will give him advice after I hear his answer.So please tell me, what advice would you give the OP, that is different than mine?
- would you advise him to do shows in areas in which he has minimal experience?
- would you advise him to do "tool reviews", because they are easy and there are an infinity of tools to review, so you never run out of material to discuss?
- would you advise him to be a "master of ceremonies", and bring in experts for each show who know the area being discussed?
- would you advise him not to let anyone use their real name, in favor of a funny made up name?
- would you advise him to just look through Knots for topics to discuss. That way, you could read up on the topic and see what others have said, and thus have a lot of material that one had plagerized from others to discuss?I doubt you'd recommend any of these. I wouldn't.
But I am anxious to find out what you would recommend to him, before you find out if he has any woodworking competence.By the way, there is a difference between Charles and I. Maybe a few occassionally go after some ideas that seem poor to me. If you or the OP feel I was being harsh, I sincerely apologize. I honestly feel I was being honest and that I was giving solid advice. If others feel my advice is incorrect, faulty or non optimal, please let me know. I am ready to change. ALSO, AGAIN, remember that I started my answer to the OP with the words that my advice was worth what he paid for it. After all, why would anyone believe me? Which brings up the age-old problem in Knots -- Who should you believe.By the way, if the OP is too sensitive to be able to take my nice but honest advice, then he should not get into the "media". My stuff is mild compared to what he will run into later. Mel
Mel,
After reading your reply to me (twice, actually) I can only say that you seem to be but a shadow of the person you used to be here at Knots.
I guess it's similar to the little skinny kid that gets bullied at school. Then he gets to a point where he's had enough (or too much) and then brings an Uzi to school and shoots the bullies and all of his teachers. You're the skinny kid. I'm sorry I ever picked on you.
Lee
Lee,
Let me try it a "nicer" way.
You certainly must know of Paris Hilton.
SHe is a celebrity.
She has no known special skills. She is not a singer, dancer, actress, woodworker, potter, writer, nurse, nothing.
She is a celebritySo a person could become "The Paris Hilton of Woodworking". No skills but a celebrity.If you want to make it as a "Media celebrity", the one skill you must have is to be able to sell yourself. We have a lot of woodworking celebrities. Many are bloggers. If my kid said he wants to get into woodworking, I would suggest learning how to do woodwork before becoming a professional blogger. But I am only one voice, crying in the wilderness, and I am alone. Everyone else wants the OP to go out there and become a star. I merely want him to learn some skills before he tries to become a woodworking celebrity. IF he takes my advice, he might have some more "staying power". But it is easier and more fun to go along with Lataxe and yourself, and just say, "Go for it. Make your dream a reality. Become a star."But if someone wants to become Woodworking's Paris Hilton, who am I to say that there are better things to do. I would recommend emulating Tage Frid, rather than Paris Hilton. I guess I am old fashioned.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel, you auld mizery,
You are assuming them lads think like you do - obsessed with fame and the desire to reduce everything to a financial value. Perhaps they want to blog and otherwise broadcast their thought about experiences with woodworking for it's own sake?
You do this all the while, doncha? Stick a whole load of labels on someone (Paris Hilton - cuh) that have nothing to do with what they said or how they really are; and then go on and on about how those labels mean the person is somehow bad or a fool. As to the image of you being a lone voice crying in the wilderness - you need to get over your "I am a wise man/prophet" delusion of grandeur. You are becoming merely an unpleasant ole cynic, grinding tediously on various axes.
Alternatively, given your inclination to call everyone some kind of sinner, perhaps you should become a-one o' them preachers on the tele? You get to rant on and on and on in an obscure fashion; sad & gullible folk gulp down your every word uncritically and then give you all their money out of the feelings of guilt you have induced in them! How happy would that make you!!? Seems like the purfek pastime for the New Model Mel.
Incidentally, you know nothing of those youths' skills, at woodworking or anything else, so perhaps you might want to reconsider your outright and arrogant dismissal of their (after all, quite small and reasonable) ambitions. No? I thought not. :-)
Lataxe, grumpy about grumps (my paradoxia again).
David,
Loved your post.I always find insight and wisdom in your words.
You bring light where others cast darkness.
You bring forth hope where others sow despair.
YOu see deep into the souls of men where others see only what is skin deep. So based on the inspiration you have given me, I have written a thought for all of us, as a collective. Let us all find happiness in our own way.
Let us help one another to their destination, and not to ours.
Let us see through the eyes of our brothers.For we all have but one goal, to see happiness and fruition,
not only for ourselves, but for the world as a whole,
for by ourselves we are merely islands,
but together we are a force for the triumph of good over evil. It is only together that we can build cathedrals.At the end of each day, let us ask ourselves how we have helped our brothers reach the goals that they have set for themselves.
Let us stand on each others shoulders so that we may see the far peaks, and be blinded by our own selfishness. So David, is that better?
Rev. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Is that better, you ask? Nah, get that dawg collar off and return to your real self of yore. Mel-the-preacher needs to be taken off and given a scourge by the sisters as he is wild-eyed and ranting over-much about days of judgement and witches up the chimney.
What has come over you of late, dear chap? It's almost as though you have been possesed by that Stanforth or one of his many sub-divvils, as Lee imagines. I suspect it may be a case of voodoo from the Macoute spook.
I think I may go back in time to read some Mel posts from before this weird interlude in the Knots-life of 9619. Those were the days of sweetness and light............. and how I now regret saying then that maybe you were a bit too sweet.
Lataxe, drawing back his finger from the "ignore" button.
Melvin (0616):
Jousting with 15 year olds, yet. Are their internet monikers any more juvenile than those we have chosen? One of them, Callum, is a bowl turner, so you two almost have something in common.
By the way, not to be flaming you, but I thought you were relatively new to bowl carving ( and you are already published in that genre. A lot of experience in a short time?). Sort of reminds me of the colonial writing his brother back in the UK - " we are quite advanced here. We have established four colleges and cut the logs for the fifth".
Cheers,
Joe (who would revert to his given name if his profile would allow changes).
PS. David. You are true to the mark per usual.
Joe,
I would have just used "Mel" as my Knots moniker, but when I signed up for this, I had no idea how things worked. 9619 is not very clever. It is my street number. I did not think I was "jousting". I felt like I was talking to one of my kids. I didn't do too bad bringing them up. I have three who are married, have jobs, homes and advanced university degrees, and all three got all of their degrees without incurring any debt. I am proud of how I raised my kids. They didn't always take my advice :-), but when they were headed down a path that I saw problems with, I let them know. I talked to them not in a mean manner, but in a straighforward manner, as if I respected them -- and I do. I guess giving advice not to do something here on Knots is sometimes taken as being mean. Oh well. What about me and bowls. I am not a turner. I make them using an angle grinder with two 4" diameter chain saw blades on it, followed by a series of carving disks with carbide grit on them, followed by other methods like hand tools. The maker of the chain saw blades asked me to do a "how to" manual on using his tools to make bowls from green wood. I could not find anything on this anywhere in the literature. He had a short writeup with no photos on his website. He liked what I sent him. So I was not "bragging" in saying that I have written a short book on carving bowls. I have not received any money for it, and probably never will. They guy did send me a couple of blades free, after I had written it. I wrote it to be helpful to others who might want to learn. I wish I had that writeup when I started to figure out how to do it. There were a number of things that I had to learn by trying different things. Once I had them figured out, it was easy but time consuming to take some photos and write it up for others to use.I am no expert in anything with regard to woodworking. I find it helpful to learn from info that others have written up. I figured I might do the same to help others learn what I have. i don't think that there are many in this world who want to learn how to make bowls from green wood using an angle grinder with chain saw blades on it. I wish Andy the best. If he were my kid, I'd rather see him focus on learning than on talking about what he doesn't know. But my values come from a different generation. I remember when you had to pluck chickens after you bought them. I remember back when people didn't eat french fries three times a day. I remember back before there was a Paris Hilton or a Brittany Spears. Sadly, I am a dinosaur, and my values are not current. Thanks for writing.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel , Melvin David , Mogan David , Rev Mel ,
To whoever you presently are I must say your response to our young friend was not very supportive and based on your opinions and feelings mostly as opposed to some hard and fast facts .
You wonder how Andy not being an expert can pull this off , some even mention Norm A like look at him . I want to let you in on something maybe NASA worked it from a different angle but in the real world of entertainment and such they have tech advisors who in Norms case probably take a practice run and make sure all the machine set ups are right . Andy may need tech advisors and directors to help him with tech aspect that experts are so good at .
If the world listened to your advice about not trying something because you are not an expert , just think you would not have carved that first green bowl because you would have been advised against it , kind of silly huh Mel ?
We should in general support and encourage the youth of today to try to make a difference in the world .
We won't learn nearly as much if we are not allowed to make mistakes.
If the world was as cold as your response was you would be taken out back and horse whipped .
Mel , you are now a full blown curmudgeon quite possibly beyond
dusty,few things cannot be done
Dusty,
I hope I have not offended you, my friend.
I hope I didn't offend Andy.
I believe I gave him the best advice he could get, even though he didn't want to hear it. You said "If the world listened to your advice about not trying something because you are not an expert , just think you would not have carved that first green bowl because you would have been advised against it , kind of silly huh Mel ?"Actually, not silly at all. When I wanted to learn how to carve bowls from green wood using a chain saw, there was almost no information out there on the subject. I spent a year learning how to do it, and making more than 30 bowls that way. They got easier as I learned more. Then I wrote up something to help others learn more easily. I compiled the info that I wish I had when I started.What I didn't do, Dusty, is to write the book and do a streaming video before I learned!If Andy said, "I want to jump off the Empire State Building", I would not have been supportive. Do you think we should be supportive of youth who want to do stuff like that? I don't think so. We should give our young friends the best advice we can come up with, even if it disagrees with what they say they want to do. Doing that shows them that you respect them. If you just suck up to the kid, hoping he will be your friend, that doesn't work. But you already knew that.Hope we are still friends.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel ,
Maybe the ideology here is instead of telling Andy you can't do it ,,,
perhaps you or another could offer up the services of a "tech guy" not sure if that is the right name or any thing else your sure they need to know .
Help him be successful it helps us all , just like Samson has , I don't say any of this for the sake of being mean spirited but to be a part of this Knots community ( and it is one ) that even with humor and others the climate is one that welcomes participation and of course we all have our own way of seeing the same things sometimes .
Now if Andy said he was taking his life savings and buying a studio and some equipment and was in some way taking a considerable financial risk my advice would be more prudent . That is not what appears the case here so the experience the Boy's gain can be of value , the next time they will be experienced , no not experts yet but , were most the of the finest craftsman experts before they were discovered ? or published ?
regards from Oregon
dusty , boxmaker
Now if Andy said he was taking his life savings and buying a studio and some equipment and was in some way taking a considerable financial risk my advice would be more prudent . That is not what appears the case here so the experience the Boy's gain can be of value , the next time they will be experienced , no not experts yet but , were most the of the finest craftsman experts before they were discovered ? or published ?
I could not agree more with this guy. Best of luck to the boy. His ambition reminds me of my grandson.
Hey Mel. My kids are 18 and 20. Trust me (as I'm sure you know) its a brave new world out there, and this is how the younger folk interact in this day and age. Think how cool this site was when it first came out 5 or 6 years ago...and its outdated stoneage crud...compared to what the kids have and USE today.
My kids are off at college and I'm still amazed at how connedted they are to to the world around them..all through the miracle of the computer, cellphone etc. When I left home back in the 70's a collect call was the only way I acould phone home...special occasions only...
The blog will do the kids good...peace and love...Jimmy
mel,
why am i starting to get nervous?
eef
"SHe is a celebrity.
She has no known special skills. She is not a singer, dancer, actress, woodworker, potter, writer, nurse, nothing.
She is a celebrity"Thats pretty prejudicial there. When you don't even know what she does in her personal life. For all you know she could be a composer in her spare time. Just because you haven't seen evidence of it doesn't mean she doesn't have some "special skills".One skill that she is quite obviously known for is fashion modeling. If you don't think there is some skill involved in that try strutin' yourself down a runway that is flattering to the oufit you're wearing. High priced fashion models don't get to where they are simply for their appearance. There are plenty of beautiful people out there. They get there from a combination of their poise and ability to project themselves. Which in my book is a form of communication "skill".
Ted,
You are a wise man!
Nicely said.
You read deeply rather than on the surface.
What you said is right on!On the other hand. If I don't make some assumptions, I can't make it through the day. I assume, for example, that when I flip the light switch in the kitchen, it will not cause the hot water to begin to flow. When I buy a quart of milk, I assume that it is actually milk, and not paint. So how do you make it through the day? :-)Thanks for posting. Very insightful.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
"So how do you make it through the day? :-)"Wasting my time reading and responding to the drivel here.
Edited 1/12/2009 12:23 pm ET by ted
Wasting my time reading and responding to the drivel here...
Gee I would think you live in a real world that does not exist!
Personally I'd ignore the nonsense about not doing this and not doing that. Your skill, passion, etc will always be more than someone else and therefore make what you have to say relevant! Good luck!
Chris
I will agree with lataxe and say we really don't need any more tool reviews!
Edited 1/10/2009 7:28 pm ET by hdgis1
Ignore the nattering nabobs of negativism and do it. If anything, its another opportunity to learn...
Edited 1/10/2009 9:15 pm ET by Jimmy
Andy, the names, the names !!!!
No problem despite Mel(who is a fine fellow) but ya must live up to your name, wherever it comes from!
Back in the day, the 50's and 60's we all congregated in several local pool rooms in South Brooklyn in NYC. You played , you got better and you were recognized informaly with a name for various traits -I expect perhaps as a matter of respect , a welcome to the crowd, or the fact that you demonstrated that you were a "stand up guy" (one you could trust to do the "right" thing) and not let's say empty the pockets of a beginner(a fish) because you were looking to steal. It was the "house man's job to generate revenue on the tables but he would also balance the skill level by matching opponents but giving the weaker player some "weight" a handicap of some points on the wire (the beads strung overhead to keep score). The house man was like a father confessor, social worker, judge and friend.
Many guys had names, Milkman, Tony the teacher, Joey the actor and several others who became very big names in the pool world as top 10 tournament players.
But, the Milkman became an entrepreneur and quite wealthy, Tony the teacher evolved into the head master of a very private and very well respected children's school, Joey the actor you have been watching for years as a successful soap actor which made him wealthy, gave him the chance to be with and raise his kids and push some balls with us where he is still Joey -da- actor and no one cares or even wonders about his professional life. "Respect" ya think.
There are many others with names but the important thing is that none of the mentioned or unmentioned would ever do anything to sully their name and that is what you take home from this drivel . Once you trash your name, you are done. Keep it pristine and you can revel in it forever. If you take a name love it over all.
BTW guys there was another fella who came out of those rooms back in the day who held a very respectable stick before the wife, three kids and the cateracts showed up. PADDY-DA-HAT-----enjoy and be happy.
Paddy,Those were the days...when character mattered and performance was recognized. Of course, you need to point out to Andrew that door swings both ways :).I was well on my way to community prominence as the 'Flushing Flash' until I took a joy ride in my parents car at 14 at 4 am. It was all good ...R-Ba-Car-Ba
Very good. Go for it. Variety is the spice of life. When is the first broadcast due? (;)
Thanks for all the comments everyone, we are hoping to publish the first show of Transatlantic Wood Talk this upcoming friday. it will be on blip.tv and hopefully itunes as a podcast and links will be on my website.
m/ (>.<) m/http://www.cocoboloboy.co.nr
andy,
Take another look at what Mel said. There were 3 words of sage advice in the whole post.
Follow your dream.
Also, Paddy had it nuts on!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"Take another look at what Mel said. There were 3 words of sage advice in the whole post."
Wot, as many as that? (;)Philip Marcou
I think you young men have something going here. Woodworking for folks your age. If not just a past-time for yourselves it's a chance to promote woodworking to other youths. What better way to reach out to your peers than to show yourselves participating in the endeavor?
As more and more schools across the nation are cutting out wood shop it is refreshing to see young folks expanding their horizons and learning skills that have so many other applications in life.Good Luck.Edited 1/11/2009 8:59 am ET by ted
Edited 1/11/2009 9:05 am ET by ted
Hey Andy
Well the best of luck with your endeavor. Don't let the naysayers bother you.
I would rather you try something than sit in front of your computer or PlayStation drooling like to many young folks.
A lot of people ask me if I learned wood working from my father. NO he was a banker and I saw him try to hang a door, that is were I learned to swear. I learned so in high school, but mostly by watching Norm and reading and making some fantastic mistakes and learning from them.
Some folks here are stuck in the past. Lecture time in the old days if you were a musician you had to get a record company to sign you. If you did not appeal to the "suit's" no matter how good you were, to bad. Now with a good computer and Internet you can be your own producer and the public will decide if you are worth it. Same goes with video you don't need advertisers and a TV station to think you are saleable. So go for it if it works good if not you have some experience to learn from.
As for topics try telling folks how to make something with out thousands of dollars of machines in a shop no kid can afford. How to seek knowledge from more experienced folks. How to keep your fingers attached to your hands. and no tool reviews.
Don't try and market it to old folks set in there ways shoot for your target audience and ask them for topics and feed back.
As mentioned so many youth have to exposure to industrial arts classes and can't change a light bulb. Hence the lack of trades and them making a good living, beats the hell out of a Bachelors of fine arts degree and serving pizza to pay back a student loan.
With your ages being what they are, coupled with your relative inexperience and knowledge of woodworking it is unlikely you will have much to say on many subjects within the vast pantheon of woodworking that long experienced woodworkers will find particularly new or ground-breaking.
What you are more likely to be able to make available to readers, etc, and could be interesting, is the process of your learning, what you actually find out, and the techniques you develop.
The danger for you is that what you do pass on may, or may not be accurate, technically sound, the processes you describe safe, the information is factually correct and all backed up by suitably rigorous academic research and referencing where appropriate.
If you are able to ensure all of the above you could add something interesting and useful to the virtual world of woodworking. I have, for instance, dipped into several woodworking blogs and I generally very quickly lose interest in them.
The problem for many woodworking bloggers is that it is evident to me that they really don't know very much about the subject; there are a few well known ones out there that I've read that fall into this category. There are bloggers out that seem to spend most of their time passing along rumours and bad information they have picked up from other like minded internet participants, that similarly don't know much about the subject. When this source of less than useful information dries up the blogger tends to resort to what I call fluff-- navel gazing about their place in the world, and tedious accounts of meeting with other woodworkers, machinery and tool makers, and less than dynamic descriptions of some woodworking task, etc.
I am probably a rather difficult to please audience of various forms of information of this sort because I know my way around the subjects of furniture design and making, woodworking tools and machinery, woodworking processes and wood as a subject in itself passably well. But having said that I'll reiterate that it could be interesting to hear and read about your development and learning as woodworkers, how you overcome difficulties caused by your inexperience, where you got the information from to solve your problems, successes you have had, and so on. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
I am hoping for a list of the bad bloggers, as I wish to visit them to be shocked. You are naughty not to name names, as now folk will be wondering and even allocating, via wild guesses, good bloggers into the bad bucket and bad bloggers into the good pail! All your fault!! :-)
Whilst we must not be too arrogant about callow youth and it's lack of experience, I do think your general advice to them boys is good; it is so easy to mistake the sound of one's own voice for the voice of authority. Why, I do it every day when ordering the cat about, who never loses sight of the true situation.
Where I used to work (spit) this was the norm - all sorts of ignorant stuffed shirts substituting noise, pomp, empty truisms and laughable rumours for knowledge. Some of the worst offenders were indeed callow youths, straight out of some corporate training school where they were taught "how to impress the gullible with gasbaggery". Some even had degrees in "Meaningless Post-Modern Technobabble and Buzzwordery".
I too would be interested in gaining an insight into how a young woodworker finds his own way through the subject in this day and age. Many, many of us who have learnt some woodworking in the last quarter century have been self-taught, in the sense of doing our own research and practice outside of a formal institution like the Leeds College of Art & Design. It would be interesting to hear from someone young actually embarking on the process and full of ambitions to do well at it.
Not to say that a formal education is redundant, far from it. But you gotta admit that untutored amateurs produce some astounding work these days. Just consider the FWW Readers Gallery, where many of the pieces are made by folk who have never been to a college, not even one o' them horribly expensive ones they have in the US of A, such as that Redwoods and others.
Also, a blog is much more informal than an academic paper or dissertation, so perhaps we should allow more laxity than ".....factually correct and all backed up by suitably rigorous academic research and referencing where appropriate". I would be satisfied with, "well argued and described, with some convincing evidence".
Lataxe
"I am hoping for a list of the bad bloggers, as I wish to visit them to be shocked."
No chance. Being challenged on naming a know-nothing windbag would require effort on my part to demonstrate the offender is posting mostly badly informed twaddle.
""well argued and described, with some convincing evidence""
There are certainly situations where such rigour is not required, and blogs are a good case in point. However, even the author of a blog should be able substantiate a claim if required. If they can't substantiate it, it is opinion; if it is not opinion, but fact, they ought to be able to show that is the case if asked to do so. This is where a reference to or quotation from an authoritative source works well. If I am going to read something that is new to me I might want to go to the original data or source, eg, author, researcher, book (or online source, paper, journal, magazine, etc) date of publication and page numbers so that I can verify a piece of information. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
ok, final details are being hammered out and we are pretty sure of the following:Transatlantic Wood Talk episode 1 will be available on Fri. the 16th on both of our sites and blip.tv (twt.blip.tv) and on itunes.thanks for all the comments, and we'll see how it turns out
m/ (>.<) m/http://www.cocoboloboy.co.nr
Andy, keep up the good work, your exuberance is refreshing.
Tom.
Andy:
I visited your site, and that of your co-conspirator, Callum. I was pretty amazed at the shop that Callum built, pretty impressive for any age, let alone the tender age of 15. He is obviously pretty serious and has invested in some Festool goodness.
I haven't a clue what you should talk about and you will probably find it will take a few months to "find your voice". I would recommend that you experiment wildly and widely to see what interests your audience. If you have something worth saying, and can do it in an engaging manner, you will find an audience.
The demographics of hobby woodworking is generally old white guys with a few bucks to spare (Mel is archetypal in this regard). But there are others, who might appreciate a different approach.
Good luck with it and let us know when the first episode "airs" as it were.
Hastings
Be sure to take proper health precautions, starting the cocobolo work at such a young age!
I wish you the best of luck in doing whatever you decide to do, I just hope you don't spend more time 'chatting' online than in front of the workbench. The measure of a woodworker is the product, period, not the talk.
Brian
If I was young and starting out I would take the time that you'll spend keeping up your blog (like anything, I assume this must take a good bit of effort to do well) and use it to practice cutting joinery or making sketches/learning to sketch, or simply building stuff.
But it's your time, spend it how you choose.
Edited 1/12/2009 10:38 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
Charles,
You and I agree on what Andy should do. I said it out in two volumes. You said it in two sentences. Same effect. NONE. BUT IT MAY BE THAT THE TWO OF US ARE WRONG, and everyone else out there is right.We live in a world in which Media is KING. As McLuhan said, The Medium is the Message. It is more important to Andy for Andy to be known as someone who talks about woodwork, than to be someone who does it well. Hence my analogy to Paris Hilton in a previous message. Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears are two of the most "Googled" individuals in the world. Christian Becksvoort, sadly, is not among the most googled people on Earth. Wanting to be a celebrity is a powerful motivator. Who wants to toil in darkness trying to improve one's skills, when one could be TALKING ON THE WEB?It is possible that Andy is on the right track!! If he becomes famous, Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, Delta, Tormek, Jet, Festool and others may send him all of their tools so he will talk about them on his show. If he says nice things about the tools, they will send him more tools. Then with all of those free tools, he can quit talking and learn how to be a great woodworker without paying for the tools.So it is possible that he is way ahead of us, and he is on the right track. It is I who is wrong, and I am destined merely to toil competently (after more practice) in darkness with the rest of the devils. Let us toast Andy! We may soon see him on the cover on FWW magazine. He may become the operator of the best woodworking school in the world, -- and all because he followed his dream -- and became a star before he became competent.Mel
PS to others who may not know. I often write under the names: Charles Stanford, TaunTon Macoute, etc. So in this case, I am merely writing to myself. :-)Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Sometimes, if I want to have an intelligent conversation, I talk to myself. I don't always agree with myself, but that's the chance I am willing to take.
The concept of achieving fame, or at least notoriety, as a means of defining one's success in a field is an interesting one. Especially as it applies to craft. Now there have always been the very few overachievers and publicity seekers, the Gibbons's, the Chippendale's, the Sheraton's, the Phyfe's, Thonet's, Stickley's, Maloof's, and Krenov's in every generation. But most in the crafts labor in relative anonymity, at least outside their own community-- if they were completely anonymous, they'd get no work- professional workers I mean. Amateurs may well be known as masters of their craft only to close friends and family. And there are the myriads of unlabelled finely made pieces of antique furniture out there attesting to the competance of untold numbers of skilled, if not inspired practitioners of the trade. When did the work we produce become less than enough to make us feel successful?
Somewhere along the way- when Warhol predicted everyone's 15 minutes of fame?- we believed him! We arrived at the hope, no, the expectation, that each of us wil have- deserves, is due, owed, our moment in the sun. And now, with the world, via the internet, as our community, we may, "go viral" and achieve success, if you define it as equivalent to fame, without taking the trouble to achieve mastery, let alone competance, first. Utube celebrates incompetance and competance alike. Like the dog chasing the car, will we know what to do with our fame, once it is upon us?
Go for it andy, whatever it is. Sadly, I am on dialup, and video streaming is something I've only heard of. If- no,when-- you become a sensation, though, I'll hear about you on knots, or the evening news, or heaven forbid, that "funniest videos" show..."ouch! That's gonna leave a mark".
Ray
ps this time, I agree with everything I said
Ray,
"ps this time, I agree with everything I said"STOP IT. YOU ARE SCARING ME. :-)I don't use streaming video much. Once, I looked up a topic and one of the Google responses was from someone who calls himself The Wood Whisperer. I watched part of it. It seemed to be more about the Whisperer himself than the topic I was interested in. I shut it off. Possibly it got better after that. I'll never know. Luckily, besides the writings of Warhol to help us understand the world, we have those of Darwin. The more I think of it, the more I think Andy is going in the right direction. Why should he learn how to do woodwork well? Very few can afford well done woodwork any more? An oft heard question by fine woodworkers is: "Yea, but can you make it for less than IKEA sells it for?" Go get em, Andy. Become famous! Think back fondly on us peons when you are a celebrity! As a result of having rethought Andy's quest, I have decided to be more like him. I am going to call myself "DOCTOR MEL" and start a blog and a streaming video thing on learning how to perform elective surgery on those who cant afford a real doctor.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Don't do the doctor thang or at least don't go international (Angland) with it if ye do. You'll starve!
Well, gotta get back to the woodshop. The heater needed a part and is back up and running. Planing stock in 16° is good fur ye - keeps ya working and it's really no sweat.
By the by, do you know Paris Hilton's real name?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Ray,
You have conversations wid yeseff too!?
Don't ye hate it when ya have an argument with yourself, and lose.............
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Andy,
Sounds like you really have a great start. But I'm a little confused about what you've started. Are you becoming a movie actor and director, or a woodworker? I think you'll be great either way. Though I don't think you'll learn woodworking by creating videos, nor do I think you'll become a great actor and director by working wood.
My $0.02 would suggest you follow your real passion, be it wood or video and learn all you can learn that interest you. (which doesn't mean you need to know everything) Then when you feel that you are the Master of the Universe in your chosen field, travel to meet the known leader in this field. Be it a Master Carver, or a Hollywood lighting expert. They will help you see just where you stand. You may come home with your tail between your legs, but I hope you return enlightened with new ideas, techniques and respect for these Masters.
I hope you are very successful in video, AND wood. And look forward to seeing your work in the future. Though I think learning one skill at a time might be faster and easier.
Hoping to see you on PBS in the years to come.
GRW
Andy ,
Great idea , who knows where this could take you .
There are so many directions you could go , topics galore guest speakers ,phone in questions and comments perhaps special experts to talk on certain topics .
You have little to lose and everything to gain .
Good Luck
dusty
were planning to do a simmilar thing. we need a title of the show, and topics. oh, and listeners
Woodworking in the OLD style..
1. No cell phones allowed EVER! May loose a finger or arm grabin it!
2. Old style woodworking.. IS like a child.. You have to learn some things even if you think you DO NOT have to.
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