As you know by now, I have a small shop. Yesterday I had two small back-slats to laminate and bend.
My assembly area was filled with bench components, my work bench was still set-up for carving cabriole legs and my usual gluing area was occupied by the spindle sander for finishing the crest rail. (I know! These are all excuses.) So I covered the cast iron saw extension with newspaper and Saran Wrap, applied glue to the lams (Laminating uses a LOT of glue.) and clamped her up.
Of course the plastic had shifted and the paper had soaked through. The saw table was badly stained. What the pictures show is the top after I have cleaned it with a razor blade. I can do the usual: steel wool, followed by wax (The top was already waxed – but obviously not enough for the required protection.) but I wonder if there is a product to remove the stains? In my experience, the usual “rust removers” create a compound that is black – which is no improvement.
Suggestions requested.
Frosty
Replies
Ow
I think I'd start with a solvent that would completely disove the glue, allowing it to be absorbed out of the pores of the cast iron. Which solvent would depend on the glue, I'd guess, but I have no clue as to which disolves what.
Ow and Yuck
Good idea. I used Titebond III. I don't know there is a solvent for that. I'll check.
Thanks
Frost
On a bad stain like this, I would use naval jelly with steel wool.
Dan
Frosty:
Try Vinegar and salt (household salt). I have cleaned glue brushes (partially dried) of Titebond III using vinegar. Plain old white vinegar.
I make a paste and steel-wool or wet-dry automotive sand paper.
Be aware that Vinegar can etch cast iron if it is left on the surface for a long time. I use some baking soda and water to make sure the vinegar is neturalised.
I must be frank and state that I do not remember if all of the stain was removed the last time I did it. These days, I no longer worry about stains on my table saw. Reasonably clean is what I do now....
Frosty - that is a workshop, not an operating room!! I glue everything up on my table saw - it is flat. I just worry about keeping it smooth. I use waxed paper (old fashioned kitcen wrap) to protect, but mostly because the iron top reacts with any water bearing material and turns any wood black.
Jerry
Small Stain
Not sure I'd worry about it, Frosty. My JET looks worse, because that nice, flat cast iron table is my favorite glue up station for things that really have to be on.
The way I keep glue under semi-control is liberal applications of paste wax to the table, and then most of the glue pops right off with a putty knife. I agree with you, coverings (saran wrap, butcher paper, etc.) never seem to work. But the paste wax works pretty well, and keeps the top from rusting, as well as making the saw itself easier to use.
I generally don't worry about the stains, and have never tried to get them off.
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I think the most comforting ones deal with "Don't worry about it."
Yesterday afternoon I realized that I had used Lee Valley '2002 GF' glue, not TiteBond III. I emailed Lee Valley's Tech Center and got a prompt reply (good people) - "it appears that the metal has reacted to the exposure of the glue, thus we believe that this is unfortunately irreversible."
As I stated before, I always wax my cast iron surfaces. In this case, I guess just not enough to prevent staining from 24 hour exposure under paper. I will steel wool, wax (heavily) and get on with my life - though I will still reprimand shop visitors who place cold 'beverage' cans on cast iron surfaces.
Thanks again. Frosty
I have been known to use an orbital sander and some 220 or 320 gr wet/dry paper. Spray with WD40 and have at it.
Next time, instead of wax, use one of the purpose-made compounds like Top Coat. Still, you won't get away with that every time.
good luck and "don't worry" sounds like good advice to me. Almost time for one of those cold beverages - well maybe after I cut the finger joints - and not my fingers...
Brent
Commonnnnn sand it clean ! You know you want to. : )
I would sand it with what ever grit leaves a similar look to the original finish. Try a test on some scrap iron. Probably 400 wet or dry. The blue paper from automotive supply will cut faster = less strokes and less paper. WD sounds good. Will have to sand the whole top to make it look right. Nearly impossible to take off enough metal with 400 BY HAND to throw off the accuracy.
I would sand by hand and try to do the whole thing the same amount and in a back and forth direction unless you like swirlies. I would do it. Nothing like a nice clean "machined" look but then I am a metal rat with raven like fascination with shiny metal things. I to have good luck with waxed paper but skimp on glue ( well that is just use the right amount with out all the ooz ) and have never laminated in my life.
Sounds like a fine project you are building. Please post photos when done.
PS: yah Brent is probably right 220 320.
Yuck !
Make it match
Frosty
I doubt you will find a way to remove the stain ahort of sanding the top so much it destroys it. If you can't come to live with it then coat the entire surface with glue so it will all be stained the same. Gives it that nice aged patina of old iron without the wait.
I'm only partialy kidding. :o)
Rich
Yuck - The conclusion
Today I received a phone call from TiteBond. They suggested "sanding". I'm pleased they responded to my email but I already knew about that procedure.
So, picking up on Ralph Barker's thought of "dissolving' the glue out of the iron, I thought why use WD-40 or some other oily substance when sanding. Water dissolves most PVAs (I used Lee Valley's 2002-GF), why not use water to sand?
Today I took a wet Brillo pad (soapy steel wool) and scrubbed the dickens out of the stains. Either I didn't scrub hard enough - or long enough - but nothing happened. I think we all know that stained cast iron is not going to clean up, so why worry about it. I won't! The saw functions just as well even though it is not as pretty. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Frosty
Frost - your table is not stained and no cleaner will work. It is oxidized - a gun barrel is not stained it is oxidized and you can't wash that off. If you really want to try to deal with the chemical conversion, think of a de-blueing solution that you would use on a rifle barrel. Actually vinegar works if you let it sit for a while. Won't hurt anything for half an hour or so either. But the sanding will work better.
WD40 or similar will give you a good lubricated polish. You could also use water but that has the draw back of adding the potential for rust if you can't get it out of the joints in the table surface.
Brent
Easy Off oven cleaner? I mean it's amazing on pots and pans, so maybe for a cast iron table saw top too?
Table stains
I did something similar - I left some treated lumber sitting on my tablesaw when I was making a planter bench for the deck. I spaced out that it contains a lot of water (it was REALLY heavy wood) & the next day when I got back to it, there was a nice rust pattern of end-grain wood on the table. I sanded it smooth with steel wool & contemplated how to get it totally clean again (it was the first mark on it), but realized that it didn't affect functionality, and I have little enough time in the shop as it is, so I'm going to leave it alone.
Through rigorous experimentation, I have determined that the only ground cast iron tables on woodworking equipment that do not oxidize are those that are left in the original carton with desiccant bags in place! If glue doesn't get them, then condensate dripping off of water pipes does. :)
Jerry
Glue on the table saw
When I did the kitchen cabinets when we moved I needed every horizontal surface I had. Covered the saw with corrigated cardboard. Old moving boxes.
ASK
? Aaahhhhh Aaaallllllll Right ?
You started a thread and posted
> . . I wonder if there is a product to remove the stains? In my experience, the usual "rust removers" create a compound that is black - which is no improvement.<
I responded
http://www.abrasivesoasis.com/categories.asp?cat=80
Several other people said the same thing. You then said
>I think we all know that stained cast iron is not going to clean up, so why worry about it<
I'm confused. Or you are. Not in the best mood after a day of this sort of nonsense . Must be something in the air. My advice . . . don't breath maybe things will get better.
Aaahhh!
Sorry Roc. I discovered I was wrong and have been waiting to deliver a revised report.
I received another email from Lee Valley the Monday after I received the Saturday email that told me, "nothing could be done about the stain". The Monday email apologized for the wrong info and suggested that they offered an 'eraser' product that would do the job. I ordered a set.
These 'thingies' appear to be eraser-like, rubber blocks impregnated with grit; 3 grades: coarse medium and fine. I tried the fine; it worked but was slow, so I switched to the medium. The stain is truly only "skin deep" and comes off without too much effort. As I am anxious to finish the bench for my sister, I put the balance of the cleanup on the to-do list - and also my intended report to Knots.
My plan is to 'sand' the stained areas away, then if I can rig a block to a ROS, I will do the entire table top to a uniform gloss. (Spot cleaning leaves a shiny spot that is visible in the uniform 'aged' appearance of the cast iron.)
I hope that this interim report eases your "confusion" and frustration. Keep on breathing - I will.
Frosty
Glue Table
I also use my table saw as a glue table, as others have said "it's flat". What I have done is cut a piece of 1/4" Masonite to fit the entire saw and extension table when the fence is moved all the way to the right. When I’m finished gluing, I try to clean up the Masonite a bit but not too much.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled