About a week ago I posted a thread on zero clearance inserts and got a ton of good information. I have just one more question.
I made the inserts using 10 year old air dried oak. I got as close to straight grain as I could an milled the stock down to within 1/16″ of final. I let the stock set in my shop for 4-5 daye setting on edge and today made the inserts out of the stock.
The factory insert with my PM2000 has some spring loaded bearings on one side. I assume that is to keep it snug when in place. When I milled the inserts using a patttern guide bit, I did not worry about the spring bearing and held firmly and cut.
When in place, the insert has just a tad amount of slop. I assume the factory took care of that with the bearings. I have used the insert now and everything is going well but I am a little “skiddish” about the slop. I do not want that thing in my face.
Is my concern a little over the top or is there something I can do to snug it up. I have considered putting a coat of something on the side until it is snug.
BTY, the new insert is flat. The factory insert is not.
Replies
Try adding pieces of masking tape (you might need several layers, depending on the amount of slop).
Cut about 1" pieces of tape and apply them to the sides of the insert. Place one piece at the front of the insert, and another at the rear, on the opposite side, to keep the blade opening centered.
Add tape until the insert suits you; then trim the tape from the top with an X-Acto knife. On the bottom surface, don't bother to trim; just stick the tape to the insert.
I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish snugging up the insert, but this method is quick (and cheap).
Kreuzie, I think just one layer of masking tape will be enough to tighten it up. I'll give that a try.
Cool
Cool--
Let me know if it works or not. I have another plan.
I tried it and it sure is better than without it. I would be interested in your "other" plan
Looks like others beat me to it. I was going to suggest countersunk screws in the sides, if the insert thickness will allow them.
The insert is 3/8 inches thick. If I can find smaller screws, I'll give it a try. There's not much to lose. I am not going to try it on the insert already in use because it will invariably put some pressure on one side or the other of the blade. It is nor hard to make the blanks.
Thanks.
cb, get some set screws about 45 to 50% of the thickness of the insert x 3/8 or 1/2" and install them (drill/tap/add crazy glue to harden the threads) about 3/4" inside the leveling screw spots in the edge on each end on the slack side. Just keep tweaking them out till they drag and keep the insert in place. Paddy
Will do that as soon as I can find some smaller set screws.
Thanks Paddy
Hello , one of the inserts I made a week or so ago was short lenghwise ( i guess the stock was short ) but I did still want to use it so while I was installing the leveling screws ( 1/8" ) I just drilled one more hole in the end of the insert and put an allen screw there too . Snugged it up and all is well . I know it was just scrap plywood but still functional .
Gary
When in place, the insert has just a tad amount of slop. I assume the factory took care of that with the bearings. I have used the insert now and everything is going well but I am a little "skiddish" about the slop. I do not want that thing in my face.
Is my concern a little over the top or is there something I can do to snug it up. I have considered putting a coat of something on the side until it is snug.
Yes there is something you can do and it is important and useful.
In your photo, you show a nicely fitted insert with depth adjustments. Thats a nice insert. Your concern about it coming out and hitting you in the head is a good concern.
Solution and Precaution: As you look at the insert from where you begin cutting, the point on the oval furthest away from you(the 12 o'clock position) should have a small arm or tab that prevents the insert from coming up if the blade is touching the insert on the back end. Take the insert out and put a wooden tab that you can swing into position to lock on the bottom side of the tablesaw. USE A BRASS SCREW TO FIX THE TAB TO THE INSERT. If you should raise the blade into the brass screw, it will not tear up you nice blade in any way --This shouldn't happen as your oval race track insert looks very long but its a nice precaution.
Don't get fooled into thinking if you have a tight squeeze fit on the sides of the insert, the piece of wood won't come up. Wrong.
if this isn't clear, I will try to send a photo of what I am describing. this is a safety thing and its worth the overkill.
dan
Edited 2/15/2008 11:16 pm ET by danmart
Dan,
I think I understand what you are saying.
How is it coming with the Bird secretary? I do have a very important suggestion if you have not started the gallery.
Cool
Cool
I just finished gluing up the bookcase, gluing the stiles and rails, fitting the hinges to the face frames and getting ready to fit the top molding.
Before I built the upper box, I decided to do things a little differently. I built the box and shelves then I cut the face frames and fit the hinges to the doors and frames while they are loose. This allows me to set the doors just right, glue the face frames in place with the doors aligned just right. Trim the little excess with a handleable and you're done.
I have cut all the pins and tails to the desk, fitted the box, cut the slope and cut the top to accept the lock angle cut on the desk lid.
Where am I?? I am fooling with the idea of making the desk surface(not the lid) in 2 pieces. I think I can cut a dovetail on a 10" board and slide one in from the front and the other from the rear and squeeze a good glue joint?? The seam will be under the gallery board.
What do you think? That business of cutting a rabbet so shallow and putting a dovetail on the front 2" seems like more trouble than it is worth??
I do need all the inputs I can get. Please don't hold back any suggestions.
If you have a cable connection, I can send tons of photos out. Not the prettiest but you'll get the picture. Ha
Dan
Edited 2/16/2008 10:58 am ET by danmart
The doors look great! You did a great job cutting the sholders of the toombstone sholders. I see you have already mortised for your hinge.
As far the desk serface, the back edge of the front surface board will be under the gallery and should be no problem. It will certainly be easier to slide the two pieces than one whole piece as I did.
If I recall, I had the whole upper case constructed before I morticed the hinges and installed the door. As you know that is the part of that whole job that has to be precise. Each time I look at my doors I can't help think how LUCKY I was that it all worked out.
I went a different route with the upper case. My wife wanted to be able to display so I made the doors Chippendale style. Each glass is an individural pane. I am attaching a photo of the desk.
Edited 2/16/2008 1:37 pm ET by coolbreeze
Coolbreeze,
Would you mind posting a few more (perhaps smaller) pictures of your secretary?
-Nazard
Nazaard, that sucker was big. I called myself downsizing it, but I must not have cliked on the thingmajig.
Here are a few.
The secretary looks nice. The color of the wall...
-Steve
"The secretary looks nice. The color of the wall..".------looks pink, but if you look at the secretary pictures, they are not all the exact same color. The wall is really a dark red/burgundy color. It is really quite nice with the color scheme that my "first wife" and her decorator selected.
Paul,
If you took those pics with a dig camera try taking them w/o the flash. To do this you need a lot of natural light, may not be an option for ya. I've found that whe I use the flash on my dig it tends to wash out the real colors, especially in wood.
Just a suggestion. That is some sweeet secretaire! Can't wait to see Dans. You guys are true inspiration and yes a secretaire is in my future.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/18/2008 9:57 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
I agree. The secretary is in place and there is not nearly enough natural. The wood will have a different color depending on the angle of the shot. Also the walls always turn out pink looking while they look like a good red wine... The main thing is my wife loves it!
Paul,
The main thing is my wife loves it!
A BIG 10-4 on that!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
WOW!! That is simply wonderful. DW and I have just spent the last few minutes looking over the pictures while drooling over the computer keyboard. If I may ask, how many hours did it take, and what is the finish?
-Nazard
DW and I have just spent the last few minutes looking over the pictures while drooling over the computer keyboard
If you think it looks good in the pics you should see it in person. Cool's a friend of mine and I have been over to his home - which is beautiful in itself. The secretary is phenomenal. I would put his secretary up against Lonnie's any day.
Lee
nazard, I retired in 2000 and was playing the fool out of golf. I also have a large place with 5 acres of landscaping and lawn. My wife had been looking for an antique secretary when FWW featured the Lonnie Bird secretary(FWW 154-6). After studing the plan for some time, I set out to do it. I kept my golf going full blast and worked on the secretary. I did not even think about hours until I was mostly finished and I began to worry about the efect of the changechange of season on the wood. My guess is that I have 500 hours in the thing. I am slow!
Thanks for your kind remarks.
CB
Speaking about tombstone doors and carving.. I pulled out some old beater chisels and ground them at 30 degrees and 40 degrees in opposite directions for the job. At the same time I took a bunch of old files and ground the backs flat about 4" back and ground the angle the same way.
Thinking about what Ray(up in VA)said about puttin' corncobs on the tangs as handles I pulled a few out of the bucket of cobs. Funny thing, those files were so sharp, and they finished out sooooo nicely I didn't even use the chisels. Before I knew it, I was done.
I ground the backside smooth with a belt sander then I went to my makita water wheel, dmt coarse diamond stone, to the norton 8000 and man it cuts that end grain crotch like a drawknife going thru wet oak. Beautiful. It didn't take very long and I love when my LN friends come over and ask: where did you get that piece of $hi@??? That thing is ugly.
I get to show them how it works. After their eyes water, I tell them its a special process and you need a forge to make it happen. If they bring beer -- the trade secrets are unclassified. Ha.
Edited 2/16/2008 6:02 pm ET by danmart
I use little allen screws for both levelling and keeping the insert tight in the throat.
Good suggestion, Pondfish. I used 1/4 screws for the leveling screws. For the sides, I would want to use smaller screws and will have to get them. Yours is a good suggestion.
Most inserts have a tab at the back end to hold them in place where the blade comes out of the table. I cut my plywood inserts leaving this tab in place. Use the BS to cut the top 1/4" off so the tab slides under the table at that point. Then you don't need to rely on a snug fit to hold the thing in place.
I don't even use levelling screws. Tape is cheap and fast and only affects the underside of the insert. The most elegant solution is not always the most complicated.
Why did you use solid wood? Won't that swell in the spring and crack or at least get stuck in the table?
Andy
Andy, I am a card carrying choleric personality. Served me well during my career but is hard on family when they "forget" that "I yam what I yam" :-)
I had some of the oak and everything I have used it with has shown to be quite stable. I have some baltic birch coming and I will use it for more inserts. I only made one for my TS in the virtical position. I have another I am going to use with my dado
I like the look of the oak and we'll see how it works.
Thanks for your reply and tip about the tabs.
I use scap pieces of laminate flooring to make zero clearence inserts
I measured the thickness of the table saw manufactureers insert with calipers then obtained a scrap piece of laminate flooring the same tihckness
regards Charnwood
Edited 2/17/2008 4:17 pm by charnwood123
One thing you can do is to inlay some of those button rare earth magnets on the bottom side of the insert that will align with the casting ears of the table. powerfull little buggers.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Bruce. I made a walnut case for someone's salt water acquarium. The sucker was 300 gallon. The owner wanted to be able to remove the waist trim for wiping up any spill. I told him that I could use earth magnets but it would not look as good as it would permanently installed. He wanted it, so I made it. It fit surprizingly well and has been in use now for about 18 months and seems to fit as good now as it did.
I still have some .25 rare earth magnets. It is amaxing how many things one can use them for. I am still intrigued with the new featherboards using them. Turn a knob and the sucker is completely released!!
I will give your suggestion a try.
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